Can anyone translate this for me?
This is a discussion on Can anyone translate this for me? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; From North Dakota Century Code:
62.1-02-04. Possession of firearm or dangerous weapon in liquor establishment or gaming site prohibited - Penalty - Exceptions. Any person ...
July 4th, 2008 11:01 AM
Can anyone translate this for me?
From North Dakota Century Code:
This is just poorly-worded enough, almost like they had a cut and paste error, to cause me confusion. A liberal reading of this paragraph would mean that all establishments that sell alcohol, whether on-sale or off-sale (i.e. most restaurants, all liquor stores), are entirely off limits. A strict reading would indicate that only the portion of the establishment set aside for the retail sale of alcohol, (i.e. the bar area in a restaurant, an entire pub, liquor stores), is off limits.
62.1-02-04. Possession of firearm or dangerous weapon in liquor establishment or gaming site prohibited - Penalty - Exceptions.
Any person who enters or remains in that part of the establishment that is set aside for the retail sale in an establishment engaged in the retail sale of alcoholic beverages or used as a gaming site while in the possession of a firearm or dangerous weapon is guilty of a class A misdemeanor.
There are no exceptions provided for valid CCW license holders.
Anyone familiar with North Dakota case law have any input on this? Are similarly-worded provisions in other states' codes?
July 4th, 2008 11:12 AM
This sounds very much like the Florida law, with the exception that Florida limits it to places where alcohol is consumed on site. The standard reading I have seen is that you are "probably fine" carrying in a restaurant, but nobody knows for sure.
Your law would apply to the beer aisle in a grocery store and very much outlaw buying any alcoholic beverage while armed? (even if you consume it later at home).
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. (Thomas Jefferson)
July 4th, 2008 11:25 AM
Florida prohibits ccw into bars or establishments where the primary activity is consumption of alcohol.
Florida Statute 790.06 states, "No license issued pursuant to this section shall authorize any person to carry a concealed weapon or firearm into any place of nuisance as defined in s. 823.05; ...
"any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to such purpose;"
July 4th, 2008 11:37 AM
Originally Posted by PaulJ
Sorry, I disagree. That's nothing like the FL law. There is no "probably fine" about it......there is no prohibition at all to carry in an establishment just because they either sell, or serve alcohol. The prohibition is solely towards "that area of any establishment primarily devoted to the sale and consumption of alcohol.....the segregated "bar area" of a restaurant for example.
I respectfully recommend that you purchase Jon Gutmacher's book on FL firearm law. It's extremely comprehensive and will answer any questions you might have with respect to the statutes.
Sorry Ryan, didn't mean to wander OT.......I'm no help. I agree with you, the law is pretty vague as written and without definitive guidance, I'd be pretty careful. I referred to Gutmacher's book.....he's an attorney who specializes in FL firearms law and publishes a comprehensive book on the subject. It might be worth trying to find out if there's someone similar to him in ND to help interpret some of the statutes......
Good luck, and welcome to the forum!
July 4th, 2008 12:16 PM
IANAL but,the way it looks to me is if you are in a restaurant that also includes a bar or gambling devices you may sit in the restaurant, but not in the bar area or any area that has say, slot machines. So that means if you went to a race track you could sit in the grand stand but not the bar or the casino. Also, since it doesn't state for on premise consumption or not, you would have to stay out of liquor stores or the part of your Wally World where beer and wine are.
Infowars- Proving David Hannum right on a daily basis
July 4th, 2008 12:17 PM
I interpret this as:
62.1-02-04. Possession of firearm or dangerous weapon in liquor establishment or gaming site prohibited - Penalty - Exceptions. Any person who enters or remains in that part of the establishment that is set aside for the retail sale in an establishment engaged in the retail sale of alcoholic beverages or used as a gaming site while in the possession of a firearm or dangerous weapon is guilty of a class A misdemeanor.
- Possession of a dangerous weapon in that portion of a place where alcohol is sold (retail) is a crime.
- Possession of a dangerous weapon in gaming establishment's "gaming" area is a crime.
- Mere possession is the crime, though the crime is only held to be a class A misdemeanor, not a felony.
- This applies if you enter such places. It applies if you stay in such places, which suggests that the instant you're given a dangerous weapon by someone you must leave.
- No exceptions, at least insofar as the text you've posted is concerned. Unknown if it stands alone or is listed along with other statutes by a given law that exempts CHL's from their applicability.
- I also read this as specifically applying to ONLY the space reserved in those places for direct retail sales of alcohol, not to the larger establishment itself. Meaning, as others have suggested, it appears as though a restaurant is fine, but the bar area would be off-limits.
July 4th, 2008 12:38 PM
Here are the exceptions as laid out in the same statute:
There are no grocery store liquor sales in ND, only liquor stores, so that part should be easy to avoid if needed. Regarding restaurants, where they have table service of alcohol *and* a defined bar area (most), what then would the "set aside" phrase mean?
This section does not apply to:
1. A law enforcement officer.
2. The proprietor.
3. The proprietor's employee.
4. A designee of the proprietor when the designee is displaying an unloaded firearm or dangerous weapon as a prize or sale item in a raffle or auction.
5. Private security personnel while on duty for the purpose of delivering or receiving moneys used at the liquor establishment or gaming site.
I know, contact a lawyer (which I may) ... it's just so hard to find any working on Independence Day.
July 4th, 2008 12:43 PM
Your state's statutes might well have specific definitions, but lacking one I'm assuming it would follow the common meaning, such as: in a restaurant that has primary seating for dining and has set aside a particular space for the bar as a drinking area, one may not carry a dangerous weapon into that "set aside" area.
Originally Posted by ryanjensen
July 5th, 2008 02:18 AM
Hey Ryan, hello from Jamestown! I asked a BCI agent about this, what it means is you may carry in an offsale (Where alcohol is NOT meant to be consumed on the premisis, like Happy Harrys) you MAY NOT carry where alcohol is consumed (any bar, or even Applebees)
‘‘To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them...’’
— Richard Henry Lee, 1787
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