CCW, Security Guard requests license? - Page 2

CCW, Security Guard requests license?

This is a discussion on CCW, Security Guard requests license? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by David in FL May I ask, why? My reason is I don't know him from Adam, just because some mall hiring person ...

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Thread: CCW, Security Guard requests license?

  1. #16
    Distinguished Member Array 4my sons's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David in FL View Post
    May I ask, why?
    My reason is I don't know him from Adam, just because some mall hiring person decided he is okay to hire, doesn't mean I trust him with my address and the knowledge that I have guns there. If it's that important that they verify I have a permit, they can call the police. I don't mean to be a jerk and cause the local officer on duty to be pulled away from his duties. I've seen them called to stores for some pretty stupid stuff before. I take my privacy seriously.

    If I'm carrying, then it's an area not posted, thus I'm legal, if they are thinking I'm stealing due to printing, or some other reason, they can see what it is, but other than that. They don't get squat from me.
    "fundamental principle of American law that a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any individual citizen." [Warren v. District of Columbia,(D.C. Ct. of Ap., 1981)]
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  2. #17
    VIP Member Array David in FL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4my son View Post
    My reason is I don't know him from Adam, just because some mall hiring person decided he is okay to hire, doesn't mean I trust him with my address and the knowledge that I have guns there. If it's that important that they verify I have a permit, they can call the police. I don't mean to be a jerk and cause the local officer on duty to be pulled away from his duties. I've seen them called to stores for some pretty stupid stuff before. I take my privacy seriously.

    If I'm carrying, then it's an area not posted, thus I'm legal, if they are thinking I'm stealing due to printing, or some other reason, they can see what it is, but other than that. They don't get squat from me.
    Interesting. We clearly have differing viewpoints on this one. My perspective is that he would have no reason to ask unless he had already determined that I was carrying. Seems to me that he's probably trying to verify that I'm doing so legally, rather than simply calling in the police to deal with the "man with a gun".......

    If showing my ccw to him helps him do his job and move on, keeps some cop from wasting his time, and potentially keeps my day from being disrupted, I guess I just don't see it as a big deal.

    Thanks for the response though.

  3. #18
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    As long as I'm legally carrying concealed I have no duty to show a security guard my permit nor does he have any rights to try to pat me down,he can ask and I can tell him no if you can tell I'm carrying a concealed weapon then I need to address the way I carry,either get a better belt holster combo or quit packing the desert eagle .50 in my cargo shorts
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  4. #19
    Member Array Tros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ram Rod View Post
    Personally, even hypothetically--I don't see how we ever got to point A to begin with. If a security guard (a member of the general public such as I in his capacity) is asking to see my ID or permit, then something has gone very wrong or they have x-ray vision.
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  5. #20
    VIP Member Array Paco's Avatar
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    I agree, if a SG sees that I am carrying then it is time to work on my concealment. I probably would not opt to show my CHL and would respectfully leave the establishment, and go straight to the gun store to get a better rig, if this should ever happen to me.
    "Don't hit a man if you can possibly avoid it; but if you do hit him, put him to sleep." - Theodore Roosevelt

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  6. #21
    Ex Member Array FN1910's Avatar
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    In South Carolina:

    (K) A permit holder must have his permit identification card in his possession whenever he carries a concealable weapon. When carrying a concealable weapon pursuant to Article 4 of Chapter 31 of Title 23, a permit holder must inform a law enforcement officer of the fact that he is a permit holder and present the permit identification card when an officer (1) identifies himself as a law enforcement officer and (2) requests identification or a driver's license from a permit holder.
    As for a rent-a-cop it is not required and in SC the signs are in full effect by law and enforcable and long as they meet code. With all that said you may want to show your permit just to avoid hassle, a disturbing the peace charge and having to get it thrown out by the judge. Sometimes swallowing your pride can save a lot of aggravation but some thrive on aggravation so it is up to you. You may get a false arrest lawsuit out of it but don't expect to get rich from it.

  7. #22
    Senior Member Array SilenceDoGood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarinD View Post
    Using wisdom and showing respect will always get you a lot further. And if you think about it, their job has to suck.
    I'm a security officer so maybe I can shed some light on this. As far as I know you don't have to give a security officer/gaurd/whatever anything, this will however get you escorted off the property. The only time I personally have worked in a public place and asked for ID is to scare young punks who look like they are up to no good (yes I profile them, it helps with my job)And the job doesn't suck that bad.
    "A government is like fire, a handy servant, but a dangerous master." -- George Washington

  8. #23
    Senior Member Array Rustynuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David in FL View Post
    May I ask, why?
    Exactly, you show your drivers license when asked for a CC purchase, why not a CCW?

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogrunner View Post
    One good reason to be apprehensive about showing ID to any security officer is very simply that some of them are in truth real 'wing ding' wannabe's!
    Some are, and some are LEOs moonlighting on the side. Even if the LEO is moonlighting as a security guard they still have the full LE authority. Either way, whether he's a security guard as his only job or a LEO working some extra hours they're both hired to do a job by their employer and that job is to ensure the safety of everyone in that establishment.
    The questions to the OP:
    Is the security guy in this situation a wannabee or is he a LEO moonlighting?
    Just how much do you really want to push the issue?
    How much headache do you want in life?
    What your problem with showing ID?
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  10. #25
    VIP Member Array TN_Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by luvmyglock View Post
    I don't show my ccw to anyone unless they are a police officer. I am not required to by law, so it's just not going to happen.
    +1 Same here.


    Quote Originally Posted by David in FL View Post
    May I ask, why?
    Because I am under no legal obligation to do so and because I will hand no piece of ID to anyone other than a LEO. Why in the world would you have your permit to some shlub making minimum wage who may very well have a felony record? (a lot of security guards have felony record by the way)
    My permit is more improtant to me than my DL, so I will hand it to no one who is not an honest-to-God police officer.
    If the security guard is a moonlighting police officer, then he gets a heck of a lot more respect. Other wise, he can ask me to leave and I will do so immediately, no questions asked and no fuss. But he isn't getting his hands on my permit and he is not disarming me under any circumstances.
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  11. #26
    Member Array braindonor's Avatar
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    If a SG asks, either he has made you or someone else has, or someone else has a suspicion (possibly an acquaintance of yours) and has relayed it to the SG. The SG is taking a reasonable, but not necessarily safe, path by asking you for your permit instead of calling LE. I would ask him why he asked, and show the permit. Problem should be solved.

    Were I the SG, and had someone who is possibly carrying and is either legal as can be or a mall murderer, or somewhere between, I would call the cops, since face down felony stops by rent a cops is probably a no no.

    Since I don't print and no one knows I carry, not going to happen to me anyway.

  12. #27
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Well, there are security guards and then there are security guards. This is all going to vary from state to state. In Maryland you may just be dealing John Q Public in a uniform, or you may be dealing with a Special Police Officer. If you are talking to an SPO they have full police powers on the property of their employer and IIRC adjoining roadways. Either way you are definitely dealing with an agent of the property owner. If you have no intention of ever shopping there again, play it however you like. If you think you might some day have a reason to return to that property you might want to make nice!
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  13. #28
    Member Array dogrunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ispcapt View Post
    Some are, and some are LEOs moonlighting on the side. Even if the LEO is moonlighting as a security guard they still have the full LE authority. Either way, whether he's a security guard as his only job or a LEO working some extra hours they're both hired to do a job by their employer and that job is to ensure the safety of everyone in that establishment.
    The questions to the OP:
    Is the security guy in this situation a wannabee or is he a LEO moonlighting?
    Just how much do you really want to push the issue?
    How much headache do you want in life?
    What your problem with showing ID?

    Well, ISP Capt.....That depends on just precisely WHAT type of ID that the man'd present to me....Sworn LEO...then no problem....Just a private security officer...well, that's a different aspect entirely....I don't presume to know the statuatory provisions in Ill...(I assume that's your locale), but in my home state, the issue is one of relative authority and consequently ultimate liability!......If the person ID's as a sworn LEO, then the jurisdiction he represents buys liability...if he's not, well, its limited to him and/or his employer....In any event he must have SOME authority to make such a demand and absent that statuatory OK he is without it.........at least hereabouts, and one is well within one's rights to refuse such a demand. As a LEO, and you should know this full well, there must be some basis for the demand, and the demand must meet legal muster in the jurisdiction wherein it happens.

    Personally, if faced with a rudely delivered demand, in my case it'd be a matter of you "show me yours, and I'll show you mine"....short of that presentation I'd revert to a call a LEO, preferably a supervisor...

    Been there, done that, played the game for way over three decades and retired as a CLEO...

  14. #29
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    Its all about the delivery of the request; If the guard is in fact an LEO, then chances are he is going to deliver his request in a certain, professional manner and will have no problems. Otherwise, I'll be telling him to go pound salt... but thats just me.

    I had a similar incident happen to me at a large chain department store about three years ago now, only difference is, the loss prevention guy decided to go hands on, and he ended up wearing my cuffs before he even knew what was going on, and his employer ended up paying me a little bit of "go away" money.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  15. #30
    VIP Member Array Kerbouchard's Avatar
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    For me, it would depend. In Texas, I don't worry about it too much, but if it was like a 'nudge, nudge, you have your license, right?' then I would answer truthfully and ask him either why he would ask or what gave me away.

    If some security came up to me with an attitude and started demanding I.D. without telling me why, I would probably ask for his supervisor while drawing...my cell phone(clipped OWB weak side). If his ID was not conspicuously displayed, I would also ask for his ID.

    In Texas, you are under no obligation to show I.D. or to consent to ANY search or to relinquish ANY weapon without an actual Police Officer present.

    Under no circumstances would I allow a security officer to disarm me, just as I would not randomly hand my weapon over to a stranger. I don't know his training. I do not know his background. I don't even know if he can legally possess a weapon.

    As far as a demand for my CHL...I just don't see it happening. If it were a friendly request, and the requester had an ID displayed, I would most likely comply. If it were a demand, I would ask for his ID, under what authority he was making the request, and to be escorted to a private room in the back, or to wait out front for the police to show up. If I felt like it was escalating, I would definitely call the police.

    If anything, the fact that you are on the phone with 911 would give the 'security officer/mall ninja' a sense of relief, and your side would be on record.

    So, I would say play it by ear. If I'm showing somebody my ID(and I equate my CHL with my SSN, I don't just show it to anybody), then I want to know under what authority he is requesting that information, and I want to see his ID proving he has that authority.

    I honestly don't think you have anything to worry about, and you know, as the saying goes...concealed is concealed.
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