Mindset - Are you a Sheepdog?

This is a discussion on Mindset - Are you a Sheepdog? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I'm not a wolf, a sheep or a sheepdog. But I am a predator hunter......

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Thread: Mindset - Are you a Sheepdog?

  1. #31
    New Member Array hagar's Avatar
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    I'm not a wolf, a sheep or a sheepdog. But I am a predator hunter...

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  3. #32
    New Member Array rmjchas's Avatar
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    I have never liked the sheepdog analogy. I do think it sets up the notion that having taken responsibility for your own safety makes you superior to others. Paraphrasing Robert Heinlein; if carrying a weapon makes you feel 10 feet tall and covered in hair, you shouldn't be carrying a weapon.

    I don't feel superior to the so-called "sheep", I have simply made a different choice. If we have to use analogies, I prefer Kathy Jacksons:

    "...it's about the cornered cat in all of us. It's about the determination to get away from an attacker if you need to. It's about making the decision to say, "Not me. Not mine. Not today." And it's about the tools to make that decision stick. If you have to fight ... Fight like a cornered cat."

    So, I am not a wolf, or a sheep, or a sheepdog. I am a cat. Look up the Cornered Cat site. It's geared toward the women, but there is a lot of good information for everyone.

  4. #33
    Member Array gg12's Avatar
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    So, I am not a wolf, or a sheep, or a sheepdog. I am a cat.
    +1

    I'm glad to see I am not the only one who disagrees with the sheepdog analogy. While I'm not a shepherd, I do know a little about sheep and they are not nearly so stupid as the speech makes them out to be, nor are sheepdogs nearly as brave and intelligent and as important as they are portrayed by the speaker....and around here, coyotes kill far more sheep than wolves do.

  5. #34
    Senior Member Array TomEgun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cwblanco View Post
    We must remember the purpose of the original speech. As I recall it was given at one of the military academies. The transition from sheep mentality to warrior mentality is not always that easy. To a large extent this mentality can be taught and learned. Those who went through military basic training years ago may recall bayonet training where the men were taught to yell "Kill!" while punching the dummy with the bayonet. In fact, this was the actual use of the "swagger-talk" to stear the men into the warrior mentality.

    On the other hand, using this jargon among civilians does make one seem silly. Perhaps the balance lies in this group where the motto of many is "Always conceal -- Never tell!"
    OH do I remember my transition from sheep<civilian> to warrior!!lol
    What is the spirit of the bayonet fighter the quick and the dead sir!! how does the grass grow so green soldier from the blood of my enemy!! Do I still walk the perimeter at night and lock up and turn my eyes and nose to the wind! Damm straight Im an old dog!!
    "If you want peace, prepare for war." Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    Old Paratroopers never die , we just regroup!!
    82nd ABN DIV.. GOD Bless our Troops!!
    Foward Observer 3/505thPIR - A/319thAFAR
    87-91 "Just Cause - Desert Sheild/Storm"

  6. #35
    VIP Member Array TN_Mike's Avatar
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    Great letter.

    I deeply dislike people like her who use the very freedoms they are granted by the sacrifice of heroes to trash those very same heroes.
    ,=====o00o _
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    (o)_)-o- (o)_)--o-)_)

  7. #36
    Member Array Randy's Avatar
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    Here's an audio excerpt where the Sheepdog model is explained.

    TomEgun:
    Just wondering about the quote in your sig line.
    "If you want peace, prepare war." Si vis pacem, para iustitiam.
    Shouldn't that be "si vis pacem, para bellum" ?

    Randy

  8. #37
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    These are my thoughts. I hope nobody feels insulted because they are not meant to be insulting. I published them already in my Blog but I will post here since this thread is was the starter. Mods, please delete if you think it might be against regulations

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------


    In some Gun Forums, the now famous On Sheeps Wolves and Sheepdogs article seems to create furor among the ranks. Some identify with it, some take umbrage at calling those less than aware Sheep, some who serve or served in the Military or Law Enforcement communities seem to believe that it does not apply to those who are not in their groups and some think it is a Ramboesque thing that wannabes spout. I never served, I am not LEO. I am a Citizen. I know ďI donít get itĒ because I wasnít there but I get things others donít. I am a Lone Sheepdog.

    Like many modern Sheepdogs, I started as Sheep, a believer in the goodness of Mankind and with the hopes of a better World. However life taught me differently and, in my case, my eyes were finally and totally opened by the death in my arms of a dear friend who was killed by roaming Wolves. I swore then I would do my best to avoid that same situation or die fighting so I began the process of learning to become a Sheepdog and I still do every day.

    And you know what? A Citizen Sheepdog is a lonely endeavor. We must provide for our guns, our ammo and our training. We must walk alone the streets without back up a radio call away or the support a squad of friendly sheepdogs with more guns and even air support which the Wolves shy away from while they look and seek me since I am alone or with my family. Wolves are not afraid of Civilians since most are sheep ready for the picking but turn around and hide if they see a black and white or a Humvee. But since I look like the other Sheep, I can be targeted at any time with any degree of violence and I must respond to save my life or the lives of my loved ones.

    And it something happens and I am succesful in defending myself, a new wave of attack begins. I will be interviewed by Police and Prosecutors and if I am unlucky I will be seen as aWolf. The Press will try to crucify me as a wild predator, thirsty for blood. Friends and Family might see me as Cain, the slayer of the Brother now holding the Mark of the Beast in my forehead. I will have to reach into my savings for a lawyer if a politically hungry prosecutor decides to make me his campaign issue: No FOP or Union Lawyer for me, no Laws Of Warfare apply to me, I will get the brunt of the Sheep Law as I was some scum of the Earth.

    And yes, I call them Sheep because they are Sheep. I was one, see? Lots of them had the same warnings I did, sit with me in the same lunch rooms watching news reports on TV about the horrible things Wolves are doing to the flock and they just moan and complain about needing more Sheepdogs to defend them. The thought of becoming Sheepdogs themselves is bothersome at best or frightening at worst. They refuse to take the responsibility because it is too cumbersome and too dangerous and prefer to ignore the world out there and its dangers till it is too late and then complain and seek justice as long as someone else does the dirty work.
    And please, do not construe this as a criticism of Soldiers and Cops: God knows their jobs are hard enough and they could not pay me enough to do them. But then again I ask you to understand that we are faced every day with the evil you fight since it seeks us. We are not Rambos or Jack Bauers or Chuck Norrises, we are Joe and Tom and Rick and Mary and Sylvia, every guy and gal who lives next door, has a lawn, flowers and a pot belly and roots in their hair and loves his or her family but must stand alone when the Wolves come howling in the middle of the night.

    It is scary but we swallow hard and face the Wolves. I do hope you understand.
    You have to make the shot when fire is smoking, people are screaming, dogs are barking, kids are crying and sirens are coming.
    Randy Cain.

    Ego will kill you. Leave it at home.
    Signed: Me!

  9. #38
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    good read.

  10. #39
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    I was born a sheepdog. I was brought up to help people, protect people and never let the smaller guy get hurt. Dad is a Volunteer Fire Chief, he also is a sheepdog. From the time I was young we were helping people push broken down cars off of the road, we were pulling up to building and car fires watching and trying to pick out dad when he was coming out of the door or where he was on the line. I have been taught when the chips are down and help is yelled that someone needs to step forward and say "I WILL HELP".

    Blood is scary to most people, they don't want to see people get seriously hurt. They don't like fire, but don't worry about it as it will never happen to me. These are a part of who I am as a sheepdog, I am an EMT (yes, i have been paid for this but not anymore) because my Parents TAUGHT me to go when help is needed, I am a Volunteer Firefighter because no one else will, they don't have time, don't want to get dirty, don't want to take the chance of not coming home, Whatever the reason this falls to me because "I WILL HELP" is what I was taught.

    Because I have seen the worst of society and been there helping with their prey I have chosen, like my father and mother before me to carry a firearm. If I can help/ am in a situation where I can then I will try to help, this is my nature, I don't trust people I don't know because I don't know what they are capable of this is also my nature.

    I have been told while on a college class trip to DC that I am scaring the girls because I have to be in the back of the group and stop with them while they are tying their shoe. I can at times slip into an intense personality when I know I can not protect those I am with, this personality is strictly as a deterrent to those willing to harm.

    I believe I am a sheepdog. Many times I have told myself that if X happens then I am getting out of dodge but if I can stop it I have no idea if I could live with myself afterwards if I had not tried. Life is about one question "Whose in your wallet?" if they are there then I am first and foremost their dog.
    Mark

    "The world is filled with violence. Because criminals carry guns, we decent law-abiding citizens should also have guns. Otherwise they will win and the decent people will lose."

    -James Earl Jones

  11. #40
    Senior Member Array cwblanco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by me View Post
    I was born a sheepdog. I was brought up to help people, protect people and never let the smaller guy get hurt. Dad is a Volunteer Fire Chief, he also is a sheepdog. From the time I was young we were helping people push broken down cars off of the road, we were pulling up to building and car fires watching and trying to pick out dad when he was coming out of the door or where he was on the line. I have been taught when the chips are down and help is yelled that someone needs to step forward and say "I WILL HELP".

    Blood is scary to most people, they don't want to see people get seriously hurt. They don't like fire, but don't worry about it as it will never happen to me. These are a part of who I am as a sheepdog, I am an EMT (yes, i have been paid for this but not anymore) because my Parents TAUGHT me to go when help is needed, I am a Volunteer Firefighter because no one else will, they don't have time, don't want to get dirty, don't want to take the chance of not coming home, Whatever the reason this falls to me because "I WILL HELP" is what I was taught.

    Because I have seen the worst of society and been there helping with their prey I have chosen, like my father and mother before me to carry a firearm. If I can help/ am in a situation where I can then I will try to help, this is my nature, I don't trust people I don't know because I don't know what they are capable of this is also my nature.

    I have been told while on a college class trip to DC that I am scaring the girls because I have to be in the back of the group and stop with them while they are tying their shoe. I can at times slip into an intense personality when I know I can not protect those I am with, this personality is strictly as a deterrent to those willing to harm.

    I believe I am a sheepdog. Many times I have told myself that if X happens then I am getting out of dodge but if I can stop it I have no idea if I could live with myself afterwards if I had not tried. Life is about one question "Whose in your wallet?" if they are there then I am first and foremost their dog.
    Yes, I truly believe that you have a sheep dog mentality. The next time that we see a man beat up and lying in the ditch, I am confident that you as the sheep dog will be there to assist, while the sheep walk on the other side of the road in order to avoid the conflict. [Luke:10]

  12. #41
    Senior Member Array TomEgun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy View Post
    Here's an audio excerpt where the Sheepdog model is explained.

    TomEgun:
    Just wondering about the quote in your sig line.
    "If you want peace, prepare war." Si vis pacem, para iustitiam.
    Shouldn't that be "si vis pacem, para bellum" ?

    Randy
    Randy you were correct I get war and justice mixed up especially when im drinking!!..lol it has been corrected both ways! Salute
    "If you want peace, prepare for war." Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    Old Paratroopers never die , we just regroup!!
    82nd ABN DIV.. GOD Bless our Troops!!
    Foward Observer 3/505thPIR - A/319thAFAR
    87-91 "Just Cause - Desert Sheild/Storm"

  13. #42
    Senior Member Array TomEgun's Avatar
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    Miggy
    once you become aware !! or live in the real world, and train to do something about it you are no longer a sheep!! You dont have to serve and Thank you for all those who have ! But everyone here served or not is aware and tries to be just. In some ways we are all a collection of like attitudes here Ie sheepdogs thats what keeps us coming back.
    "If you want peace, prepare for war." Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    Old Paratroopers never die , we just regroup!!
    82nd ABN DIV.. GOD Bless our Troops!!
    Foward Observer 3/505thPIR - A/319thAFAR
    87-91 "Just Cause - Desert Sheild/Storm"

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