She asked the question...!!

She asked the question...!!

This is a discussion on She asked the question...!! within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Long story short.. my gf has a sister who has a history of mental illness and suicide attempts. She has been staying with us for ...

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  1. #1
    Member Array monky's Avatar
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    She asked the question...!!

    Long story short.. my gf has a sister who has a history of mental illness and suicide attempts. She has been staying with us for a 'while' now, and frankly I'd like nothing more than to get rid of her. I can't really take my gun off in the house for fear of her grabbing it and offing herself...

    I have to keep the rest of them locked up and not easily accessible should something happen.

    So we are having a BBQ on sat, friends are over, her sister who is an alchoholic to boot is TRYING to get people to get her a beer but they all know better...

    So she is talking to one of my close friends who at one point worked with suicidal people in the ER. They finish their conversation and he comes straight to me.. tells me that she needs to be admitted she has a plan and the means to pull it off.. (did not involve my guns, she just wants the attention of the attempts imo)..

    I grab my gf tell her, and she calls her sisters Doc and she says to take her to the ER.. We get her in the car and start heading toward the ER.. at no point does she ask where we are going.. (yes the bbq went on, I trust anyone I ask into my home)..

    Well the hospital we needed to take her to was NOT in the best part of town.. and when trying to park at the ER i was told to move my truck that we weren't 'emergency'.. So we had to park about 5 blocks away..

    We're walking to the admissions area and the sun is close to being set and my gf hates the neighborhood, she looks at me and says, 'Please tell me you have your friend with you'.. I said yes of course and had to smile.. she is getting her CCW.. but she is dragging it out because she isn't sure if she really is comfortable with her ability.. I know more training.. but it made me happy, that she felt more comfortable with my carrying.. she used to ask why I had to take it everywhere.. now she asks if I have it :)

    On a side note.. mental health care in Colorado is a joke.. they admitted her, sent her to the treatment facility and then released her less than 24 hours later.. because she told them she didn't have a plan.. and they believed her even though she admitted to drinking a 1/5th of Vodka with her pills the night before to 'sleep'... Oh and saying she was going to kill herself when they let her out.. admitting to that right infront of the Dr..

    I don't know if you guys have ever had to deal with anyone like this.. but man.. I don't know how much longer I can tolerate not telling her to get the hell out.. As heartless as that sounds.. she has already cost us about $5k and thinks she doesn't have to follow any rules in our house...


  2. #2
    Senior Member Array Scot Van's Avatar
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    Time to have the talk with your girlfriend and find out if her loyalty lies with crazy sis or you. Sucks.

    Crazy is as crazy does. Act immediately.
    A man in the hands of his enemies is flesh, and shudderingly vulnerable. - author unknown

  3. #3
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    and thinks she doesn't have to follow any rules in our house...
    That right there says, "Don't let the doorknob hit ya' where the good Lord split ya'."

    If you attempt to help someone and they don't want your help then it is you that is the fool to continue offering help. Sorry to be so blunt, but that's how I see it. Your girlfriend may see it differently however as blood is thicker than water.

    I'd sit down and have a long talk with your girlfriend, if I was you, and decide on a plan together that you both can accept. Once you decide on a plan, stick to it unless you both agree to change it. Face it, you may have to resign yourself to calling her an ex-girlfriend if you can't tolerate this situation.

    Biker

  4. #4
    Distinguished Member Array tinkerinWstuff's Avatar
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    You can only help people who want to be helped.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Array wht06rado's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerinWstuff View Post
    You can only help people who want to be helped.
    And you shouldn't have to deal with all that mess. It's nice of you to want to help out your gf's sister but sometimes enough is enough.

    Wht
    “They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security” Benjamin Franklin
    I'm not pro gun, I'm pro rights. What are you?

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  6. #6
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    Wow... Ok, this is a public forum so there is not nearly enough space or time to discuss all the issues you need to be considering.

    I have dealt with stuff like this for right at 30 years. Been involved in crisis intervention from one end of the spectrum to the other and the frustration of trying to find placement for patients in a mental health facility can literally cause one to want pull their hair out or even shoot themselves. When I worked ER, I have literally have spent 8 hours of a 12 hour shift trying to find placement for patients who not only needed placement, but probably a padded cell.

    And don't even get me started on mental health facilities being a joke or otherwise. As far as I'm concerned there is no rhyme or reason to the madness that goes on with the running of such facilities regarding who gets admitted, who stays and who goes.

    The issues that concern you and your G/F are another story.

    First and foremost, as far as I'm concerned, guns and mental illness Do Not Mix! Guns and people who have suicidal &/or homicidal ideations is a recipe for disaster! You can not rely on or dismiss behavior or statements as just seeking attention. They may be "just seeking attention" time and time and time again, and then BAM... the next time, ruin everyones life forever.

    A locked closet for your guns is not a sufficient means of securing your weapons. Anything that uses a "key lock" is not sufficient. Unless you have a friggon vault, with a combination lock for your weapons, you are extremely vulnerable.

    I can not even begin to explain the guilt you will feel and the blame you will get from the sister and other family members if she were to kill herself or someone else with one of your guns. Your girlfriend may even say now, she wouldn't hold you responsible, but that is before the fact. More than likely it would change after the fact.

    Soooo... you have some choices to make whether you get rid of your guns or get rid of problem.

    Second... regardless if any of my above advice is considered or not, having someone like that stay in your home, there has to be boundaries and parameters. Costing you $5k and doesn't have to follow any rules is not doing you or her any good. You should not tolerate running a flop house for a mentally ill person and not expect it to drag you down and financially bankrupt you.

    Without knowing what type of mental illness she has or a specific diagnosis, it's hard to say what you can be expected to accomplish in the first place.

    Countless families are literally torn apart everyday over a member with mental illness. Financial ruin, divorce, physical harm, depression... all that stuff... it's hard to deal with.

    It's very sad indeed and you often find yourself at your wits end, which it appears you are close to being as it is.

    Bottom line.... You have some serious choices to make, so I would recommend you get at it!
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  7. #7
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    Bottom line that any one in the mental health field will tell you, if they are really determined... they will do it and not a lot people can do to stop them beside restraints... because they'll wait until the opportune time.

    They told a friend to take her brother to an MD, (why for God's sake) so he could authorize an admittance. He (happened to be my Dr. too) said "he's fine and guarantees he is not going to do anything". He marched right out of the Dr's office, home, and an hour later.... was found dead... had shot himself in the head.

    I worked suicide prevention for a time waaaay back when.

    Also, when getting my divorce my Ex attempted suicide because her boyfriend had just broke up with her.... and Daugher & I found her. Her heart & breathing stopped about 2 minutes after we discovered her. I was able to get her ticking and breathing again and to keep her alive until the ambulance got there....

    Later, she was amazed to find out I was the one who found her and did the CPR... and all she wanted to know was "why did you do it ? ".


    Good luck..... sounds like she needs care that you guy won't be able to provide.... sounds like she needs to be somewhere so that she can.

  8. #8
    Member Array braindonor's Avatar
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    I have to keep the rest of them locked up and not easily accessible should something happen.
    Two places for guns, imo. On you, or in a really good safe in the house or car. Accessibility is fine, but even a firearm that is "hidden" has a very good chance of being accessed by the wrong person.

    Or, as another guy said, "my handgun is how I fight my way back to my shotgun".

  9. #9
    Member Array monky's Avatar
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    The guns are secure.. my duty weapon is kept on me, unless I'm in bed and then it's in the safe right next to the bed. The rest are kept locked up.. in a gun vault, combination lock. Yes I have changed my habits.

    As far as her sister goes.. there is ALOT more to this story that I have not spoken about. I was pre-med at one point going for a psych degree.. and changed my mind after realizing I'm not good listening to problems because honestly... we've 'all' for the most part had a hard life.. I chose to make something out of mine and not use it as a crutch for bad decisions.

    Some people really do need help, and some people just go for the bottle to make it easier. She is one of those people who chose the bottle her whole life to make things easier.

    I do know that I have to be careful, even though she is only my gf we have been together for sometime and marriage is around the corner.. it's just a matter of when. We are both at our wit's end.. she simply feels guilty if anything were to happen to her sister and I don't. We've given her chances, we've tried to help her and she continues to revert to her previous behavior.. I have taken off work to take her to her therapy sessions, as has my gf..

    It really is a big mess.. and there is alot that has triggered this 'episode' in her life, but it's nothing that people don't deal with on a normal basis. Her husband left her, for of all things meth.. and had a gf over when we went to fetch her dog... that's another story all in itself.

    I guess I'm just venting my frustration, but any suggestions on handling it would be great. We have set limitations.. but like someone said blood is thicker than water and it is her sister. I do have some compassion, I've just never dealt with an 'addict'. I know the mentality of the addict..it's the frailty I'm worried about. I'm not sure what her breaking point is but I do know mine is close.. really close. As is my gf's.

    How do you turn someone out who is in obvious need of help when they have a disease.. It's not really in my nature to just put someone out... but I feel that is the only means to this.

    She has not been given a key to the house.. I refuse to let that happen. I just don't know what to do honestly..

  10. #10
    VIP Member Array HKinNY's Avatar
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    My wife lost her best friend and only male cousin both with in a year. Bad Bad news. Check out AFSP: Home My wifes best friend wrote in her diary that she has been thinking about it for a long time. Quote " Today I started the car in the garage and ran outside to see if I can hear the car running. No you can't. I don't want the neighbors walking past the garage to hear the car running and try to stop me. Her parents were out of town that week. She called Sunday and asked my wife to come over. Once their she handed my wife her diary and had read her diary. My wife spent the day crying with her and told her that there is help out there and will go with her on Monday. My wife asked do you want me to spent the night. She promised my wife "Don't worry I will not do anything stupid I promise" My wife explained if you need me at any hour call me and I will come right over. Ok Don't worry. Monday moring wife was at work and tried calling BF. No machine No answer. My wife called 911 and explained my friend was feeling suidical her name is and address is. Wife left work and headed to BF house to find more police than you can image. As she approced the scence in tears. A dectective approached my wife and addressed her by name from 911 call. They opened the garage door and their was the car in garage with BF behind wheel dead. Every anniversary my wife gets a case of the blues for a few days.

    Her cousin was atteding AZ univeristy and was failing a class when Aunt called she heard something wrong in sons voice. She asked and he replied " I am failing 1 class and will not gradutate on time with my friends. So you will gradute a month later. He said he was feeling better. Wifes cousin in order to get into bars at school changed his NY Lic to be one year older and surrended his changed Lic to AZ DMV and got a valid Lic 1 year older. So he walked into sporting goods store and walked out with 9 mm and when back to dorm room locked the door and 1 shot to the head.
    In 50 years when I die from old age and get to the pearly gate the first two things I am going to do is give both of them a swift kick in the seat in the pants.

    Please seek help!! The person with the illness will find a way for sure. Bad news all around.

  11. #11
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    monky, Well I know that type as well... I don't sugar coat things on the job and don't here either... As you have said, life is hard for everyone! Truer words have seldom been spoken.

    Bottom line is, your girlfriend is avoiding and denying what she already knows in her mind what has to be done, but hasn't accepted it yet in her heart.

    Blunt, yes... Hard to hear... Absolutely! But I am not saying this without some degree of compassion either. The truth is, You Can't Save Everyone!

    Girlfriends sister is choosing and has chosen a self destructive lifestyle. Misery loves company and self destructive people love to take people down with them. Very few do it alone because they always have a family member who loves them and wants to try to help.

    Those family members that "just can't let go", sacrifice their financial security, their own sanity, break their families apart, lose their jobs, become clinically depressed, harbor resentment and in general, ruin their own lives all to try and save a person who doesn't want to be helped. The ill person is happy to take away from you, but they don't want help or be willing to straighten up.

    They are in and out of one program after another, one rehab after another, see one psychiatrist after another and so on. They are non-compliant with therapy, non-compliant with taking their medications consistently, and they do this all on someone else's dime. They are usually narcissists as well.

    You can't force a person who doesn't want help! But you can sure as hell be an enabler. You can be an enabler because you feel guilty or because you think you are doing the right thing but enabling a person who refuses to help themselves never works.

    How old is this sister, and where in the hell are her parents? Why are you and her sister the ones dealing with this? Has she worn out her welcome elsewhere? I don't know, but I will say, you are dooming your future marriage before it even starts.

    These types of situations with mental illness, addiction, alcoholism is not unlike the circle of abuse that battered women live in. Unless you get out, it's a no win situation.

    I KNOW this is not what you want to hear, I am sorry for that because you seem like a decent guy.

    I'd be interested in hearing how this plays out 10 years down the road, but really.... I know the answer. I hope for your sake, your girlfriend can wake up to reality.

    Life isn't what you want it to be.... It's what it is!

    I would like to add, that the one person who would more than likely benefit from counseling and mental help is your girlfriend. She needs some mental help in learning that it's not her fault and she can't stop it. She needs help in putting her guilt to bed and to have professionals explain that she can't help her sister.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  12. #12
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    I think a good start would be to have your GF read this thread and then you two talk.
    It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.

  13. #13
    Member Array Rusty Bouquett's Avatar
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    Some of these people don't want to go by themselves, they'll want to take somebody with. I've lived thru the aftermath of that and its a real hell. You need to get serious about getting her entirely out of your lives.

  14. #14
    VIP Member Array Spirit51's Avatar
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    This is mainly for your girlfriend, so put her in front of it and let her hear me.
    I was always the one in the family who was put upon to take care of her older brothers and mother. One brother and mother live in a black hole of despair and one brother is just a lost cause in fantasy land. I am the youngest, but these three played the "guilt trip" on me for a couple of decades until with the use of professionals....I learned you can't help those who won't help themselves.
    Your sister may be "mentally ill" or she just may be one of those "black holes" of despair and feel comfortable being so.
    If you....your boyfriend and your sister were in the middle of the ocean and the boat began to sink....you were willing to swim....your boyfriend was willing to swim, but your sister wanted you to do the swimming for her....you would all probably die. CUT HER LOOSE. I know that sounds cruel, but as a year of professional help taught me.....save yourself....your relationship....your children.
    This brings up children. Have you any idea how much dealing with a "black hole" takes away from your children.....I do. I don't know what the deal is with your parents, but it is NOT your job to be your sister's handmaiden.
    I spent years as a paramedic/firefighter.....the most successful of the three of us and all my brothers did was try to ruin me.....drain me of money and show no concern for my relationships. I can assure you that your sister doesn't want you to be happy either. She wants you in the same boat she is in. She will make sure you are a guest at her "pitty party". My mother is the travel agent for guilt trips. Expects nothing from my brothers, but everything from me. Don't let your sister take advantage of your concern for her to ruin your life, because she doesn't want you to be happy. She just doesn't want to be alone in her misery.
    It took me a while, but I broke loose. I never see my mother or older brother and limit my exposure to the "fantasy man". You see, after years of mental pain and hard work, I finally broke loose. I wish none of them any ill, but my survival and the survival of my relationship with my new husband and my daughter means more.
    This is my word to you "SAVE YOURSELF". You are NOT responsible for your sister. Don't let her take anymore from you.
    Some people just can't or won't be helped. Sink or swim....it is her choice...not yours. If it seems like I have repeated some things in this....I know I did, but it is because it is important.
    It is time in your life to work on your future. Good luck and remember...you are only responsible for yourself.....at least until you have kids.
    A woman must not depend on protection by men. A woman must learn to protect herself.
    Susan B. Anthony
    A armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one has to back it up with his life.
    Robert Heinlein

  15. #15
    Senior Member Array FlyboyLDB's Avatar
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    I had a brother in law - sounds the same. There is no easy answer and no magic wand. I can tell you it sounds like you are doing what a lot of us done with my brother in law - which is being codependents. Which just makes the enitre situation worse over time for all involved. It is a must that you and your girl friend seek a qualified counselor for advice - someone that specializes in mental illness - he/she will most likely know how to work the system and advise you guys on a game plan with her sister's best interest in mind. If you are Christians, I would also pray.

    One other thing - the firearms must go while she is in the house. If she gets hold of one and kills or injures anyone but herself - the liability (criminal/civil) could be overwhelming - and could even if she brings harm to herself only. Good luck & God bless you for attemping to help her.

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