As A Military Police Officer Why.....
This is a discussion on As A Military Police Officer Why..... within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Sigguy229 is CORRECT!
Here in Va. anything from a hunter safety course (that used to be given in Jr high school) to military service (current ...
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July 20th, 2008 11:59 AM
Sigguy229 is CORRECT!
Here in Va. anything from a hunter safety course (that used to be given in Jr high school) to military service (current & past) to a CCW approved class is acceptable.
I've carried concealed LEGALLY in Va. for almost 20 years now. Prior to 1995 Va was a 'may issue' state. Since 1995 it is 'Shall Issue', which means you no longer have to have a reason that a judge finds sufficient to get a permit. The training requirement is minimal!
If you still have any difficulty with the locals, contact VCDL.org or one of us for assistance.
The application is available from the court clerks office. You will need to get fingerprints done (Remember to get the fingerprint card back, they are NOT allowed to keep it after the permit has been issued!). Pay your fee & if they have NOT issued the permit within 45 days, your receipt for the application becomes your permit until they do issue it!
(My daughter is also an MP....)
Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.-Seneca
"If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. If I have a gun, what do I have to be paranoid about?" -Clint Smith
"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Jeff Cooper
July 20th, 2008 12:01 PM
I do not see how the poll relates to your rant.
July 20th, 2008 12:04 PM
I think the local Le isn't lying to you, but probably just isn't up on current laws. This is somewhat common, since there are so many laws, knowing them all is difficult.
At any rate I would suggest researching VA laws yourself so you understand what is or isn't legal.
"In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson
Nemo Me Impune Lacesset
July 20th, 2008 12:34 PM
Fingerprints are not required by the state...but vary from county to county--as stated in the VA code. Fingerprints can only be taken during the initial application, NOT renewals.
VASP is probably going to tell you to contact the county....but I got my permit by showing my active duty ID card....no other "proof" of training.
Also, they must issue you a permit within 45 calendar days..unless they dig up degrogatory information that prevents you from carrying (being an MP, that is unlikely).
- know the difference
is a fancy name for crappy fighter
You have never lived until you have almost died. For those that have fought for it, life has a special flavor the protected will never know
July 20th, 2008 01:02 PM
I read your rant, 2 or 3 times, and I fail to understand the poll question a it relates to your post. What exactly is the poll asking? As far as simply being able to get a ccw permit, because you are an MP, well I have to agree with needing to take the ccw class. I have all the respect a person can have for the Military Police. I spent 13 years in the army, I live just outside one of the biggest military bases in the country, and I drive, do business on that base daily. My wife is active duty military, so I deal with the military more than most civilians. Simply being an MP doesn't mean you know the ins and outs of ccw. Military police go by different rules. Once a military police officer steps off post, off federal land, their police powers are useless. Federal laws and state laws are different, military law is even more different from state laws than federal law is. I am a corrections officer. I carry a state issued firearm daily. I went through state firearms training. I have a badge as well. In the state of NC I had to go through CCW school before being allowed to carry concealed. This is because the rules of using deadly force differ immensely from a prison setting and a civilian setting. The same goes for military. The roe is hugely different from civilians and military police. When an MP is off-post, that MP is no different from any other soldier. Off the military post when dealing with civilians, a military police officer is no different from an air defense guy, no different than a cook, no different than a tanker. Military police have no arrest powers off post, military police can't even carry concealed ON-POST when off duty. Like I said, I respect an MP greatly, however, i wholeheartedly agree that simply because they have military police training, they should definetly need to attend a ccw course, rather than just be issued a ccw permit based on their military training.
P.S. You may want to give up trying to use your MP training as a way to obtain your ccw. Military service, regardless of your military job is enough for some jurisdictions, however, whether you are an MP, Infantryman, Medic, or Cook, when it comes to civilian matters, you are simply "Military", nothing more, nothing less. Your military job doesn't matter. Using your dd214, or ID card to get your ccw may be possible, depending on where you live. To say you are better trained, as an MP, than some or most civilian police, therefore you should get your ccw, well thats a bit over-the-to in my opinion, and if you go into a Police station with that attitude and try to get a direct answer on ccw from them, well you are going to get run-around.
Last edited by Jaystekan; July 20th, 2008 at 03:41 PM.
Remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
July 20th, 2008 01:32 PM
OK, Here's the Deal.
Don't mean to be a jerk, but as a retired Military Policeman I have to point something out first. Unless you are a commissioned or warrant officer, you are not a Military Police officer. Not just symantics either, it speaks to your mindset. You are first a soldier and then a military policeman whose peace time duty may include the enforcement of laws and regulations as they pertain to military personnel and property. I taught pistol and rifle marksmanship, urban warfare and about as many other shooding related courses as one could imagine. I am not a certified police officer in any state based on my MP training wether I agree with that is another subject on it's own. Fact is I'm not. Here in Michigan I was required to take the classes and jump thru all the same hoops as everybody else. Guess what, I had fun, met good people and learned a thing or three. I suggest you go to any class offered, you will at least learn law from someone who knows, not just "my buddy said" or "I heard....". Well worth it. All that being said, thank you for your service. I assure you that you will look back on it foundly and with a certain quiet pride as I do. Disclaimer:All advise given here is priced reflecting the supply /demand ratio
July 20th, 2008 02:00 PM
I'm glad Florida accepts the DD-214 as an acceptable alternative to CCW classes and the state assumes you can read and understand English, which is the language our laws are written in. As pointed out by others, you are responsible for learning about your states laws and you cannot rely on anyone else to do it for you. Probably if you asked 3 different LEO's about your situation, you might get 3 different answers with the likelihood that none are correct. This surely is true with the IRS.
Life is too short to be serious!
July 20th, 2008 02:18 PM
I agree with the requirements for everyone going to a CCW/CHL course, and here is why. Your military training (and I went through it as well, with nearly a quarter of a century in uniform) is focused on specific weapons training and the Laws of Armed Conflict. It does not prepare you for concealed carry or the laws of the state in which you are trying to get a license. You do not know what the rules of engagement are from your military training, and that was the majority of the Texas course I attended. The actual qualification portion was minimal, and everyone can use another lesson on safety no matter how many times you've heard it before.
And your authority does end at the gate, as others have stated. Luckily, my authority as a commissioned officer did not, and I once had to go outside the gate and order a guy on a motorcycle to go to the guard shack as the SPs weren't able to stop him before he left base (his buddy, on the other hand, was stopped).
So, go get the required CCW training whether you have to or not. You will be smarter because you did...
And there is nothing wrong with the XD45 as a concealed carry weapon, I carry my Service model all the time! It is light (30 ounces w/ magazine), great capacity (13+2 of .45ACP) and damn accurate!
Lastly, what is you poll all about? It makes no sense to me either...
July 20th, 2008 03:14 PM
LEOSA should NOT apply to Military Police. Read the law and realize that you do not qualify and in no stretch of the imagination will (or should).
One of the primary requirements is
FIFTEEN (15) years of full-time (read, 24/7/365), ACTIVE service. Also, powers of arrest, via STATUTE.
I was an MP in the USMC, prior to becoming a state law enforcement officer, and retiring in 2005. The two "jobs" are not even remotely akin to one another.
Good luck with this one! :~)
July 20th, 2008 03:34 PM
First off welcome to the forum!!
As others have said, who ever you talked with is wrong. All I provided for my permit in Virginia was my military ID. I just paid the filing fee, the clerk photo copied my military ID and I went and got finger printed. That's all there was to it. Your M-16 or M-9 cert qualifies as small arms training.
“They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security” Benjamin Franklin
I'm not pro gun, I'm pro rights. What are you?
July 20th, 2008 04:01 PM
In Missouri, your DD-214 is good enough to meet requirements... whether it was from last year or 30 + years ago.
"The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."
July 20th, 2008 04:09 PM
When I was stationed at the Pentagon, all I did was present a copy of my orders saying I was assigned there and a copy of my military ID. About 2 weeks later I had my permit. This was back in about 2002. Don't know if it's changed since.
July 20th, 2008 04:16 PM
I voted for better training for civilians. That will take away at least one argument that the anti gun crowd has against us.
God bless our troops!
July 20th, 2008 04:48 PM
Yup. All I had to do was show my dd-214 and I was good.
Originally Posted by archer51
It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.
July 20th, 2008 06:05 PM
Welcome aboard Matt!
I voted for better training too. I have seen far too many CCW'ers who really really need training!
By the way... I've had a lot of military training too but guess what? Precious little of it was with a handgun!
ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!
"A superior Operator is best defined as someone who uses his superior
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