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July 20th, 2008 07:24 AM
As A Military Police Officer Why.....
I am a military police officer, and my state Virginia is probably one of the best firearms states in the country, allowing you to own just about any weapon you wish to own, i own a Springfield XD compact 5" 45 ACP it is one of the best guns i have ever fired and im thinking of using my xd for my concealed carry i know it's not the best weapon for this but to me it's perfect, it's light and has the rite amount of stopping power.
My local police agency keeps telling me i need to go to some firearms safety class before i am allowed to get a permit, but i find this ridiculous, since i am currently in the military and carry a weapon in my daily duty's as a military police officer, the rigorous training i have to go threw just to carry the m9 seems to me enough that i shouldn't have to go threw a class to carry a weapon as a civilian. Now i have been told by people that my local law enforcement agency is not telling me the facts on this that all i need is proof of the fact that i am a MP and that i have weapons training, well the only documentation on that would be my DD214, but no one from this agency will give me a straight answer other then No that is not good enough.
I wish to know why, the training i have been threw as an MP is way better then most of the road officer in my local police department, i have been threw Advanced small arms training, Advanced CQB school, Advanced Marksmen school, and i have had tactical response training, and i feel this more than qualify s me to carry a concealed weapon. So why is my local police department being so difficult in allowing me to get a permit? If anyone could inform me of maybe what i am doing wrong, or if i should just bow to there will and go to some class for a 50$ permit.. I also feel this new law that allows police officer's to carry CCW around the country should apply to military police officer's, we may not enforce the same laws as civilian police agency's but we still know the difference between rite and wrong and most of the laws are the same, I mean wouldn't it be the same situation, if a off duty MP walked into the local gas station to get something to drink and some guy came in a tried robbing the place if that MP could do the same thing he would do if he was on post at the PX but then again who would be dumb enough to try and rob the PX on a military post with soldier's in there buying stuff you would be a dead man, robing soldier's hard earned money i dought that man would walk out of there alive, and those soldiers would be praised for there good job. Same as a off duty police officer walking into his local gas station to get something to drink and same thing happen he would react the same way i would.
Everyone has probably seen the video of the off duty cop who witness's a robber trying to rob the gas station he was in and holding the robber at gun point, doing his duty as a person who is sworn to protect and serve, well i am sworn to protect and serve my country against all enemy's foreign and domestic i would call that an enemy he is an enemy to me and the person or person's working or shopping there, if he has a gun and is trying to kill everyone because he doesn't get what he wants would i stand by and let that happen hell no. What person in there rite mind would?
well if this gets any longer no one will read it lol, I am sorry for the long winded speech i am just a little fed up with the way stuff is looked at by simple minded people, living in there own little world, that can't see beyond the con finds of there realty the realty is the world is a horrible place and they don't seem to see this, they all think oh that stuff will never happen to me or that stuff is only happing there, they don't realize that stuff is actually happing in there back yard, they don't see the scum of the earth, only people who might one day be saved, yeah rite.
protect your family, protect your rites, i have fought for my rites, fought for my life, and after working the road for so long and seeing how people really are, i don't understand what im fighting for anymore.
Okay im done thanks for listening to my bs.
Oh feel free to comment on anything you like.
July 20th, 2008 07:48 AM
Welcome to the forum and thanks for serving our country.
If I understand you correctly it seems that you want to get a concealed carry permit, but feel with your experience/training as an MP that you should not be required to attend a concealed carry class?
Here is my short advice:
1. Carefully read the requirements needed to get your concealed permit, there may be some exception's offered that may be applicable to you. However life is full of unnecessary "red-tape" incidences, so there may be no easier way for you than to just simply attend the class and get the certificate needed.
2. This class will be about concealed carry issues in your state. It's very likely that some information will be taught that you're not currently aware of. In other words I'll bet you learn some specifics that you don't know right now. Even if it's only one thing, that one thing may save you from a lot of trouble one day.
3. Lot's of folks here with military/leo experience went through the concealed carry training processes of their state. If need be, consider it a refresher course for yourself.
Turn the election's in 2014 to a "2A Revolution". It will serve as a 1994 refresher not to "infringe" on our Second Amendment. We know who they are now.........SEND 'EM HOME. Our success in this will be proportional to how hard we work to make it happen.
July 20th, 2008 07:55 AM
Welcome Matt. Let me begin by saying here in Georgia all active duty military are exempt from many of Georgia's firearms laws. As for the nation wide police law, remember that only certified officers are allowed under this law. This means that there are civilian police that don't meet the requirements either.
Member NRA, SAF and Georgiacarry.org
“America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.” Abraham Lincoln
July 20th, 2008 08:00 AM
Welcome to the forum. You've joined a group that will offer supportive, constructive feedback. Thank you for your sacrifice in protecting us all.
I'm a little suprised that the bureaucracy involved in getting your CC permit has got you so wrapped up. This is just another hoop you'll have to jump through, and I don't thing you should let it bother you. Take the darned class, wait your time and it will be behind you before you know it.
Carrying as a civilian is much different than carrying as active duty.
A man in the hands of his enemies is flesh, and shudderingly vulnerable. - author unknown
July 20th, 2008 08:02 AM
Yeah, Find your state laws, perhaps at your state police web site? (thats where we find ours).
I know a good number of states accept military service or various military trainings. I don't think anyone would question your ability to handle a firearm, but a lot of military training doesn't include any civilian use of force laws or how to interact with civilian LE, or what to do after a shooting incident, or firearms storage/keeping out of the hands of kids laws and methods. I found my class extremely valuable just for the legal part, even if we never talked about handling firearms or went to the range.
You definitely be way ahead of the rest of the class as far as shooting etc, but knowing how to handle a gun without excellent knowledge of your laws is bad juju. BTW, I'm not speaking at you specifically, as I have no idea what they teach MPs, I'm just saying that most millitary firearms training in general is geared toward military operations, pretty much exlulding civilian stuff.
Thanks for serving, and good luck.
Spend few minutes learning about my journey from Zero to Athlete in this
Then check out my blog! www.BodyByMcDonalds.com
Cupcake - 100 pound loser, adventurer, Ironman Triathlete.
July 20th, 2008 08:21 AM
All I had to do was show my honorable discharge papers, pay the fee and wait...
You should be able to obtain you permit easily. Check with the clerk of court in the county/city of your residence.
Hope this helps.
One man with a gun can control 100 without one.
July 20th, 2008 08:35 AM
Get a Florida nonresident permit. it is good in VA and many other states and all you need is a copy of your DD214.
Go here to have a FL application mailed to you:
Form/Pamphlet Request - Division of Licensing, DOACS
To check where the permit is good go here:
U.S. CCW Reciprocity Map from CarryConcealed.net
Bewtter yet get both, the combonation will give you great coverage when you travel.
July 20th, 2008 08:47 AM
As an active duty member, living in VA....all you need to show is your military ID...see the VA code (see below). For military members (or former/retired), no other proof of training is required.
Pickup the application from the county clerk's office or see if they have it online.
Goes to show--don't trust what LE has to say...look it up yourself!
PM me if you have any questions.
Edited to add: see LIS > Code of Virginia > 18.2-308
See 18.2-308 of the VA Code, para P1
The applicant shall demonstrate competence with a handgun by one of the following:
1. Completing a hunter education or hunter safety course approved by the Virginia Department of Game and Inland Fisheries or a similar agency of another state;
2. Completing any National Rifle Association firearms safety or training course;
3. Completing any firearms safety or training course or class available to the general public offered by a law-enforcement agency, junior college, college, or private or public institution or organization or firearms training school utilizing instructors certified by the National Rifle Association or the Department of Criminal Justice Services or a similar agency of another state;
4. Completing any law-enforcement firearms safety or training course or class offered for security guards, investigators, special deputies, or any division or subdivision of law enforcement or security enforcement;
5. Presenting evidence of equivalent experience with a firearm through participation in organized shooting competition approved by the Department of State Police or current military service or proof of an honorable discharge from any branch of the armed services; [this means you DD214, or your CAC card. Also note, there is no expiration of training--they can't say your training is out of date]
6. Obtaining or previously having held a license to carry a firearm in the Commonwealth or a locality thereof, unless such license has been revoked for cause;
7. Completing any firearms training or safety course or class conducted by a state-certified or National Rifle Association-certified firearms instructor;
8. Completing any governmental police agency firearms training course and qualifying to carry a firearm in the course of normal police duties; or
9. Completing any other firearms training that the Virginia Department of State Police deems adequate.
- know the difference
is a fancy name for crappy fighter
You have never lived until you have almost died. For those that have fought for it, life has a special flavor the protected will never know
July 20th, 2008 08:58 AM
Your local LEO is wrong. As a military member qualified on firearms, you do not need to take another training course. go to this link (VSP). Click link to applications and look at paragraph 5.
Virginia State Police
5. Presenting evidence of equivalent experience with a firearm through participation in organized shooting competition or current military service or proof of an honorable discharge from any branch of the armed services
Freedom doesn't come free. It is bought and paid for by the lives and blood of our men and women in uniform.
NRA Life Member
July 20th, 2008 09:11 AM
I agree with you on the laws, and the training i receive as a road MP it almost mirrors regular law enforcement, and your also rite most military firearms training is geared towards operations, thats how it was when i was in a combat support unit, but a garrison unit (witch works the road) is basically the same thing as civilian LE. Just lettin ya know lol but thanks for the advice.
Originally Posted by Cupcake
Thank you for your support.
July 20th, 2008 09:15 AM
Thank you all for your advice, and i am glad to be welcomed here, and i know all about red tape, lol it just kinda ticks me off when im lied to by a police department and i know there lieing and i can't do anything about it lol thats all it really is, and i heard that all i needed was my DD214 but can never be sure, and i also went to my state police website and sent them and email trying to confirm this im waiting to hear back from them. Again thanks for all the advice.
I had heard that to, i thought it applied to sworn officer's with arresting powers, i read the law also but according to them there are still allot of gray areas with this law, I have seen those cards the issue police that fall under it, some gov code that state's holder of this card is allowed to carry a ccw something something something lol not exactly sure but not that big a deal in the end.
Originally Posted by ronwill
July 20th, 2008 09:21 AM
Here's an analogy for you.
I used to work with a guy who was into everything motorcycle related. He was a professional mechanic, he raced, and had ridden everywhere he could for more than 20 years. Basically, he had at least as much knowledge, training, & experience regarding motorcycles as you have carrying & using small arms.
In order to get his girlfriend to start riding, and to ensure she got good basic training on both best practices & what not to do, he agreed to take the state motorcycle safety training course with her. Obviously, this was just to make her feel more comfortable taking the course, right? There's no way he could learn anything from the most basic of basic training courses...
Turns out, he learned at least 3 or 4 nuggets of information which made him a much safer rider on the road than he was before. When I was thinking about getting my motorcycle license, he recommended the state sponsored course without hesitation for riders of any level. Of course, I didn't listen to him and ended up riding for a few years before I too agreed to take the course with my wife when she was getting her license. Wouldn't you know it, my friend was spot on. I learned a whole bunch of things that I not only would never have figured out on my own, but which were actually counter-intuitive to what an untrained rider might assume to be correct. I'm a much better rider now for having taken some silly state sponsored course.
My point is simply this - to assume that you can't or won't learn anything by taking the state mandated carry course tells others that you must believe you already know everything there is to know. Even if that turns out to be true, how can you be so sure if you haven't taken the course? This line of reasoning is simply meant to make it easier to rationalize having to take a course you probably don't really need, but just remember - even if you have more knowledge, skill, & experience than 99.9% of the people out there, it doesn't mean you might not learn 1 or 2 new things that make you a better or safer 'carrier'.
Take the class with an eager, open mind, and you just might learn something! Enjoy carrying in the 'civilian' world, and welcome to the forum.
"It is only as retaliation that force may be used and only against the man who starts its use. No, I do not share his evil or sink to his concept of morality: I merely grant him his choice, destruction, the only destruction he had a right to choose: his own." - John Galt, from Atlas Shrugged
July 20th, 2008 10:42 AM
Here in my county your certificate for firearms training from the militay would be good enuf. Here is the section from the Virginia state Police saying it is.
Completing any hunter education or hunter safety course approved by the Department of Game and Inland Fisheries or a similar agency of another state;
Completing any National Rifle Association firearms safety or training course;
Completing any firearms safety or training course or class available to the general public offered by a law-enforcement agency, junior college, college, or private or public institution or organization or firearms training school utilizing instructors certified by the National Rifle Association or the Department of Criminal Justice Services;
Completing any law-enforcement firearms safety or training course or class offered for security guards, investigators, special deputies, or any division or subdivision of law enforcement or security enforcement;
---->Presenting evidence of equivalent experience with a firearm through participation in organized shooting competition or current military service or proof of an honorable discharge from any branch of the armed services;
Obtaining or previously having held a license to carry a firearm in this Commonwealth or a locality thereof, unless such license has been revoked for cause;
Completing any firearms training or safety course or class conducted by a state-certified or National Rifle Association-certified firearms instructor;
Completing any governmental police agency firearms training course and qualifying to carry a firearm in the course of normal police duties; or
Completing any other firearms training which the court deems adequate.
Virginia State Police
Print that off the site highlight the section that I showed U and staple it to your Application.
July 20th, 2008 11:24 AM
I have to agree with SigGuy. The local agency folks got it wrong. You should be good to go with turning in your app with what you have. If they still deny you and force you to require anything extra besides your current Military ID or your DD214 please contact the VCDL Leadership and let them know what locality is trying to skirt the law. They are always willing and usually able to help get things fixed.
Oh and if you're not a member...sign up now. It's the best investment in your rights that you'll make.
You can find their contact info on their contact page here:
Virginia Citizens Defense League, Inc. (VCDL)
"My God David, We're a Civilized society."
"Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the crap out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
-The Mist (2007)
July 20th, 2008 11:53 AM
This is also one reason most CCW classes are a joke. Many instructors have no clue what the real law is and many times interject their own interpretations instead. Read the laws and statutes for yourself and use your military training as a means to get your CC license.
Originally Posted by archer51
Welcome and thatnks for your service!
“I am consistently on record and will continue to be on record as opposing concealed carry.”
- Barack Obama Chicago Tribune, April 27, 2004
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