Defensive Carry banner

Our neighborhoods, who gets them?

4K views 54 replies 33 participants last post by  LongRider 
#1 ·
In a recent post started by Rifter he talked about some kids in a park near his house doing some weed and calling the cops. I think he did the right thing. There was a lot of input that, pardon my generalization, said, "just don't go there anymore". I am not attacking anyone. I respect everyone's opinions, but I would like to look into this idea more and get some more thoughts on the subject.

My question is; Are we just going to abandon our neighborhoods to the bad influences and stay safely in our homes, hoping the bad influences are happy with the streets and parks and don't come into our homes after us?

I am often amazed at the attitude displayed by some of our forum members. It seems they are more than willing to give in to the evil elements in an effort to ensure there is no risk or confrontation. I have read people saying to just give a robber your wallet, to just avoid areas of your own neighborhood, move somewhere else and other passive and defeatist ideas. I am really suprised considering what this forum is about. I am no cop, and I don't want to be one. I don't think I am Rambo or 007 and I am no vigilante. I do have personal rights, and civic responsibilities. This quote has always spoken to me an our abdication of responsibility to our neighbors and our society.

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."- Edmund Burke

That really seems like what is being advocated. I understand that the best fight, no matter which kind, is the one you aren't in. I understand avoidance and de-escalation. I do not understand apathy toward another, avoidance of responsibility or the abdication of our neighborhoods to illegal and unlawful influences. When we run away, or move, or stop doing what we want to do for fear of some evil influence, they win.
 
See less See more
#3 ·
I agree! I refuse to live my life on the defense all the time. If we're not proactive someone else will be, and it may be the bad guys!
 
#4 ·
Thanks for the support. I am talking about the right things to do too, not just for ourselves but our communities; Neighborhood watches, dialogues with the police department, calling in kids that look up to no good, watching out for our neighbors, talking to our neighbors, all the things that let us work together to make sure the bad elements know that we are watching and will not tolerate any incursion into our neighborhoods. They will go somewhere else that isn't watching, or get caught.
 
#5 ·
God knows, I do agree.

Good people need to assert themselves on the streets of their communities.

I am not advocating aggression of any kind, but merely the establishment of a presence that makes it clear to ne'er-do-wells whose streets they are walking on.

The thing that makes this difficult is the disconnectedness of people in modern times. In the old days, people moved around far less and had many fewer distractions and obligations to pull them away from their homes. Consequently, there was more cohesion, a sense of belonging and often pride, in communities. Because of this, I think on the whole that people who moved into town and started behaving badly met with far greater resentment and resistance than they do now because they were violating and threatening something - the community's sense of itself - that was valued and looked upon as worth defending.

Things are still somewhat like that in smaller towns and villages across the country. Also, it varies somewhat depending on the area. But all too often you'll find that your own neighbors are, at best, too apathetic or timid to do their part in making the neighborhood unwelcoming to bad elements. And at worst, some of them might be the very people who are causing the problems.

It's a bloody shame that, despite all the means of connection and communication available in the technologically advanced age we live in, there is so little impulse among neighbors (the decent ones, that is) to bond with each other and consider these issues as a whole, instead of individuals. I just can't picture it happening. People are too wrapped up in their own "lives", with distractions, temptations and gadgets that take them away from home, either physically or mentally, to care.

I looked at your location and I feel for you. Never been to Texas, let alone Fort Worth, but from what I hear it ain't no picnic.
 
#7 ·
Good thread and good posts.

I'm with you!

I am a writer and wrote a newspaper column about the "old Days of community and neighborhood cohesiveness compared to today". When I was a kid everybody knew their neighbors and that meant almost everyone for 10 or more houses in all directions.

Today, I barely know 3 neighbors well enough to say hello to and I live in a small town.

On the other hand my niece lives in Wichita, Ks, a much larger city and they are much more neighborhood friendly. They have an annual block party.
 
#9 ·
Well said "bigiceman" :35: I also agree with you. There are a couple of my neighbors & i that have to keep a special eye on the hoodlums on the other side of me :scruntiny: I cant wait for the day when the narcotics team kicks there door in :nono:
 
#10 ·
Months ago I saw a vehicle parked in the vacant lot next door, where the builder was using the space as a parking lot for their office. Knowing the builder personally, I took a trip through the woods and to the car. When I got closer, I could see four teenagers smoking up, nonethewiser that I was approaching. I turned on my 6P, and gave the driver's side window a tap. I'm sure all they could see was the blinding light, and quickly rolled down the window and answered all of my questions (probably thought I was the po-po). They told me they didn't know the builder, so I had them be on their way and told them to do it somewhere else. I'm not sure why, but calling the police never crossed my mind. I can take care of some little high school boys, and don't need the help of the police, nor do I feel that they needed to go to jail that night.

Let's let the kids know that the PEOPLE they impose upon run this country, and that simply finding a "chill spot" away from the police does not make it tolerable.

IMO, they learned that they can't play ball in vacant lots in the middle of the night in my neck of the woods, probably have a funny story for their friends, and get to go home without a criminal record that might effect a future good sumeritan trying to find a job.

Take your neighborhoods back (be safe of course, use your discretion and don't mess with the dangerous types), and let's regain the comfort of being able to visit the local park or convenience store or motel at any hour without fear of knuckleheads (whether we exercise this priveledge or not).
 
#11 ·
Very well said. I get an average of about 5-6 hours of sleep per night. I stay up and watch the neighborhood for trouble. I know who should and should not be here. I also have the keys to 6 of my neighbors houses because they trust me to watch out for their homes when they are not home. I have been here for 10 years now and have never had any problems that I could not handle. I have worked too hard for what I have to have some punks take it from me.
 
#12 ·
There comes a point when one person can make a difference to a thug or three in the "hood", but when the numbers get higher than that, you are taking a greater risk in any type of confrontation.

It may well be that the problem grows so fast that there is not much that can be done to stop it.

You also have to take into consideration of the apathy of the rest of the neighborhood as well, those that would rather believe that the LEOs will take care of it eventually.

My block has a party every year, but I would still be very hesitant to confront any wrong doers I see on the block based on gut. If they have not done or are not doing anything illegal that I have witnessed, I certainly do not want them targeting me for payback while I am sleeping or away form home, READ - I seriously doubt my neighbors would do anything if they did see something going on.
 
#13 ·
I agree with you 100% what also scares me is in another posts where some advocate standing back and watching a out numbered cop get injured and killed and not get involved. The attitude is if he has a gun let him defend himself and I will stand back and be a good wittness. What happened to folks like our grandfathers??

NCH
 
#14 ·
I think the reason that so much of this foolishness goes on in plain few is that people ignore criminal/bad behavior that occurs right in front of them. So the bad actors have come to expect free passes from civilians. When I was a kid, you were in as much danger of being spanked by the guy on the other side of town as you were from your own parents.
 
#15 ·
Watching your naber hood

I my self had a problum two years ago when my nambers and ihad problums with new nabers who throught they owmed the block when ever cars were over there we would write down infomation on there cars and turn it over to the pd onwnly one time did we have a problum and i am lucky my son is a county sheriff stoped by with some of his friends and talked to them and they moved soon after
 
#16 ·
I am living in a problem area. Others, including some local cops, suggested to move or just to stay inside after dark. I have to say I am lucky that a good number of close neighbors are on my side and have the resolve to fight back even if LEO support is spotty (some are great, other just give up :-/). In my opinion, just ignoring the problem is the wrong thing to do. Its important to get involved, talk to your neighbors and push back. So far, I have never been threatened by any bad guys. Some vandalism, but nothing major. The main crime we have here are low end amateurs. No real gangs or anything more organized. As soon as they feel the heat, they back off. We may not be able to get it all out of this particular area, but at least it is getting better. You just can't expect things to change over night. Its a long process to turn an area around. The big problem is that the criminals have very little to lose. Jail doesn't bother you that much if you are essentially homeless.
 
#17 ·
bigiceman,

Exellent post and somewhat refreshing.

I too get tired of people that advocate not doing anything because it isnt their problem, or they might get sued, or they dont have the skills, or they fear for their family or whatever the fad answer may be just to justify not doing anything.

Is it really suprising though? In our schools we teach kids not to fight for any reason, a kid defending himself gets suspended or expelled right along with the thug that started it. We are raising a generation that doesnt know how to fight,they expect instant gratification, they have no responsibility for anything, and for a majority the most physical confrontations they are ever in is in a third person X-box or Nintendo game. At least half of them are being raised by their mothers, they dont know who their father is, or maybe they have had so many that they dont really care, and then all of a sudden, they get kicked out of the house and have to fend for themselves without ever really being prepared to do so. Most have them have no real skills other than to verbally spar on the internet where they can hid behind a screen and administer their wealth of wisdom for all to see.

They give in to evil because they dont know how to counter it and they expect everyone else to be the same way.

Most of them dont have the ability to do other wise, even IF they have the desire to fight back. They have been raised to be wimps, unable to act or defend themselves from the wolves that prey upon society...and it has never been easier for the wolves than it is now.

Its nice to see someone here that is "old school" and with enough common sense to see more than 5 minutes ahead.

Thanks for the post and good luck.
 
#18 ·
I refuse to give up my right to go someplace that I am welcome in, legally have a right to be, and want to go to. Now, granted there are other factors that come into mind. Like if I am travelling with others. That being said, for the most part I go where I want. If trouble happens to find me there that day then so be it. I don't have buisness in our town in the nastier spots, so I don't go there, but if for some reason (say a friend breaking down and needing some help) it called on it, I will go. I stay in a heightened state most of the time anyway, and there it will be no different really other than I may be more curtious than normal. At any rate, I dont ever go looking for trouble, but it can find me in my own home, I am not giving punks the satisfaction of making me barracade myself inside and fear to walk to the neighbors, or to the store on the street. If I want to walk the dog around my block at 2300, I do it the exact same way I do in the daytime - with my CCW and gear that I normally have (I always carry a flashlight and cell phone) and I go about my buisness and avoid others who are going about theirs that may be trouble. I will cross the street or something if feasable, but I won't not go.

I hope that rambling made some sense. I'm a little tired, sorry folks.
 
#19 ·
A lot of people chimed in and I am glad to see the answers. I was expecting some from the other side too.

None of us want trouble. To hide, or just give in, is only asking for more. Like a spoiled child, giving in early invites a lifetime of problems; Standing up early and being consistent eliminates a ton of future woes.
 
#20 ·
our local park is having problems with men cruising and parking to pick up other men. I take my grand kids over there to let them play. When I see this going on I call the cops. I do not want this type of behavior going on in front of my grand kids. I will even point them out to the police.
 
#21 ·
We have a great neighborhood and no nearby parks. The hood is safe...strangers are noted and watched.
We have a tight 'hood'...don't screw with this crew!:c-no1:

Stay armed...know your 'hood'...stay safe!
 
#22 ·
In a recent post started by Rifter he talked about some kids in a park near his house doing some weed and calling the cops. I think he did the right thing. There was a lot of input that, pardon my generalization, said, "just don't go there anymore" .

If I didn't say that directly, I probably could have.


My question is; Are we just going to abandon our neighborhoods to the bad influences and stay safely in our homes, hoping the bad influences are happy with the streets and parks and don't come into our homes after us?



Of course not. Marijuana smokers just typically aren't dangerous, and I don't view them as a threat. That's not to say I'm a big fan of dope smokers, but I'm honestly not a huge fan of cigarette smokers either. The smoke burns my eyes, and they typically litter a lot. (not all, of course) Funny thing though... I go on with my life and don't involve the police. Why? Because it isn't needed, that's why. Same thing when I encounter drunk people. If I wanted to call the police for public intoxication criminals, I could probably do it all day every day.

At the same time, creeps are creeps. As long as someone isn't harming me or anyone else, I don't care if they're drunk, high, sad, angry, asleep, or whatever. If marijuana is enough of a violence risk factor to call police, then you'd have to expect me to call the police every time I see someone drinking alcohol.




I am often amazed at the attitude displayed by some of our forum members. It seems they are more than willing to give in to the evil elements in an effort to ensure there is no risk or confrontation. I have read people saying to just give a robber your wallet, to just avoid areas of your own neighborhood, move somewhere else and other passive and defeatist ideas. I am really suprised considering what this forum is about. I am no cop, and I don't want to be one. I don't think I am Rambo or 007 and I am no vigilante. I do have personal rights, and civic responsibilities. This quote has always spoken to me an our abdication of responsibility to our neighbors and our society.

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."- Edmund Burke

That really seems like what is being advocated. I understand that the best fight, no matter which kind, is the one you aren't in. I understand avoidance and de-escalation. I do not understand apathy toward another, avoidance of responsibility or the abdication of our neighborhoods to illegal and unlawful influences. When we run away, or move, or stop doing what we want to do for fear of some evil influence, they win.

I don't believe marijuana users are evil. There's so much ridiculous propaganda on the issue, that cancer patients and doctors aren't even allowed to make their own decisions.

In general, I'm tired of my tax money being used to deal with victimless crime. We imprison people for victimless crime. The real evil is allowing that to continue or allowing propaganda to make people fear marijuana users will come get them in their homes. That's not even remotely in touch with reality, and it's our money being used to tell us lies.


If you'd like to focus on people who are threatening others or intimidating them, I'm 100% with you. Marijuana users don't typically fall into those categories. IIRC, the poster in that thread mentioned it as brazen that they smoked weed in front of him. When someone goes on about their business with me around, that usually indicates to me that they don't view me as threatening and don't view me as a threat. I like to maintain that equilibrium.
 
#23 ·
bigiceman +1 great post !
Hotguns, you nailed it on the head !!!

We get little help from the authorities ...
I remember a tenant, older guy, one of his teen-age son had done something wrong and the dad was ready to correct him, the kid said "if you touch me I call HRS on you".
The dad replied "That's fine ... just make sure you call the ambulance right after to pick up what's left of you".
It's sad but ignoring evil help it grow !
 
#24 ·
wow. grea thread. i agree with a very proactive attitude towards neighborhood security. this includes calling pd if i see kids smoking out. victimless crime? the important word in there is crime. i'm 21, so i know i don't have some of the life experience yall do but i think what we need is to let kids that are growing up on the wrong side of the law know that there are consequences. they might not get caught for doing wrong everytime, but when they do, they won't enjoy it . . .
 
#25 ·
victimless crime? the important word in there is crime. i'm 21, so i know i don't have some of the life experience yall do but i think what we need is to let kids that are growing up on the wrong side of the law know that there are consequences. they might not get caught for doing wrong everytime, but when they do, they won't enjoy it . . .
I can agree with that, but we also need to be honest about risk. Cigarette smokers victimize me more by littering, and alcohol drinkers are more likely to harm me in several different ways.

And are drugs really "wrong?" We let hospitals have them. We let doctors have them.

When you lie to kids, they're smart enough to know it. Its hurts your credibility. It makes them not take serious things seriously.

In the name of drug interdiction, we've pretty much given up any notion of privacy. I don't do drugs, but I still lose the privacy. Kids think being stopped and searched is both normal and appropriate now. Why do kids need police and dogs searching their lockers at school? I'd much rather teach kids how to function in a free society.

The one thing this has accomplished is to make addictive substances even more costly, making addicted people even more dangerous and likely to commit crimes that do involve victims. It sure hasn't made me any safer. It's bad public policy, imo.

As far as personal policy goes, if someone isn't harming anyone, I don't make an issue out of it. I could call the police all day long if I wanted to for the hundreds of crimes I witness every day. There's no doubt the police would get sick of me. There's no doubt my neighbors would run me out of the neighborhood.

And as far as this forum goes... it's funny to read sometimes. People get all worked up when inanimate objects like guns are blamed for violence. Then they turn around and blame drugs. It's the illegality of drugs and black markets that cause the major problems. It's an obvious and expected outcome of that public policy when addicted people can't satisfy their addictions. I say blame the policy makers or anyone who commits a crime with a victim, but drugs don't commit crimes any more than guns do.

Now, I understand that drugs have a psychoactive component and guns don't. If someone's proposed policy is that alcohol should be banned, I can at least respect it as consistent. It would still be bad policy for the same reasons, and that policy actually gave rise to the major criminal syndicates operating today. If you take the money out of addictive substances, they become less harmful to the rest of society. As for those who drink and do drugs, I'll be happy to let them deal with their own consequences, or help them with treatment. Imprison them or create policies that make them potentially more harmful to me? I'd rather not. Ask government agents to assist me with a confrontation? I'd rather not.
 
#26 ·
Jim Thomas said:

In general, I'm tired of my tax money being used to deal with victimless crime. We imprison people for victimless crime. The real evil is allowing that to continue or allowing propaganda to make people fear marijuana users will come get them in their homes. That's not even remotely in touch with reality, and it's our money being used to tell us lies.

If you'd like to focus on people who are threatening others or intimidating them, I'm 100% with you. Marijuana users don't typically fall into those categories. IIRC, the poster in that thread mentioned it as brazen that they smoked weed in front of him. When someone goes on about their business with me around, that usually indicates to me that they don't view me as threatening and don't view me as a threat. I like to maintain that equilibrium.
I am entirely in agreement. And I hope that my one post, at least, was not interpreted as being supportive of any action taken against pot smokers in particular, but rather as supportive of the general position that we, as members of our own communities, should stand with others in those communities and take a strong stance against the violent targeting and harassment of innocent people who are simply trying to live their lives in peace.

It's refreshing to see someone point out the important difference between crime - defined simply as the breaking of laws - and victimization. The books are full of laws that do no good at all, and should be struck from them. That is not to say I intend to break any of them, but they are nonetheless an affront to common sense and fairness.

For example, I find laws against prostitution absurd. What business is it of the local authorities what an individual chooses to do with his/her own body, provided it doesn't endanger any unwilling participants? Same goes for laws against gambling. Some people seek to justify these statutes by pointing to the undesirable ancillary effects that often accompany the proliferation of traditional "vices" such as these, but there is no more merit to such arguments than there is to the claim of gun control advocates that guns cause crime. There is nothing inherently wrong in renting (one's own) human flesh, or in gambling money.

In order for something to be morally wrong, there must be a victim, and I agree that marijuana smoking, whatever the undesirable effects on the neighborhood may be in terms of the element it attracts, is largely a victimless crime.

But when any kind of intimidation or violence does occur, people in the neighborhood need to start refusing to tolerate it.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top