Reason to Carry

This is a discussion on Reason to Carry within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; This is another story the Brady Bunch will pretend didnt happen...

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Thread: Reason to Carry

  1. #31
    Senior Member Array Natureboypkr's Avatar
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    This is another story the Brady Bunch will pretend didnt happen
    Mixed Martial Arts Record= 2-0.......Kyokushin Karate Record=5-0

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  3. #32
    Member Array Wilky1121's Avatar
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    I regret that the result ended in a loss of life, but I'm glad the gentlemen was fast on his feet and able to defend himself and his property.

    Part of what I study for my minor (Criminal Justice) is victimology, or how BGs choose their victims. Older people fit the bill as "low risk" victims for the BG so it's really not that surprising that they chose him, and you bet your boots they probably scoped that place out or knew him from the neighborhood. While it's bad to simply stereotype or generalize, the way Desmond was described fits the earmarks of a troubled youth with limited prospects, a recipe for trouble.
    People do not lack strength; they lack will. Victor Hugo

  4. #33
    Member Array theneko's Avatar
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    Wow, great story!

    Am I the only one that can't believe one BG made it "40 feet" after getting tagged with TWO .40 caliber rounds. I assume they were HP's... ? Makes you think!

    I carry a 9mm and now I wonder if need to "go bigger". If the BG wasn't so surprised and if he hadn't dropped his gun you would think he could have kept shooting.

    Not to hijack the thread but does anyone know it the police (or a jury!) would call it excessive if you emptied the mag into the BG? I know this guy emptied his but he "only" hit twice. I mean that if I just kept shooting to ensure it was over, what happens if I nail the guy 10 times? Would the jury say "you didn't need to do that, you could have stopped at 2 or 3" or do people know better? I was just curious because I haven't seen this discussed in many of the online forums. I have always been under the assumption that in that type of life threatening situation excessive is exctly what you want to be. Just didn't know if the liberal juries go after you for that (I live in Kalifornia so I have to expect it, or at least consider it!)
    Thx

  5. #34
    Member Array Swamp Fox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theneko View Post
    does anyone know it the police (or a jury!) would call it excessive if you emptied the mag into the BG?
    Thx
    My terminology is stop the threat as quickly as possible. If the BG dies, thats just an unfortunate side effect.

  6. #35
    Member Array Hondov65's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theneko View Post
    Wow, great story!

    Am I the only one that can't believe one BG made it "40 feet" after getting tagged with TWO .40 caliber rounds. I assume they were HP's... ? Makes you think!

    I carry a 9mm and now I wonder if need to "go bigger". If the BG wasn't so surprised and if he hadn't dropped his gun you would think he could have kept shooting.

    Not to hijack the thread but does anyone know it the police (or a jury!) would call it excessive if you emptied the mag into the BG? I know this guy emptied his but he "only" hit twice. I mean that if I just kept shooting to ensure it was over, what happens if I nail the guy 10 times? Would the jury say "you didn't need to do that, you could have stopped at 2 or 3" or do people know better?
    The Bad Guy had a fully loaded high capacity uzzie style weapon stolen from the Police Department.
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  7. #36
    Senior Member Array mulle46's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theneko View Post
    Wow, great story!

    Am I the only one that can't believe one BG made it "40 feet" after getting tagged with TWO .40 caliber rounds. I assume they were HP's... ? Makes you think!

    I carry a 9mm and now I wonder if need to "go bigger". If the BG wasn't so surprised and if he hadn't dropped his gun you would think he could have kept shooting.
    I don't know if you are the only one who doesn't believe one BG made it 40 feet after being shot twice with .40 cal rounds. I am not surprised that he was able to still move. Google Trooper Coates of the S.C. Highway Patrol and you'll understand. His murderer got hit with five .357 Mag rounds COM and still survived. The trooper got hit with a .22 round under his armpit and he was killed. Caliber isn't as important as shot placement.
    You gain strength, courage, and confidence by every experience in which you really stop to look fear in the face. You are able to say to yourself, "I have lived through this horror. I can take the next thing that comes along." . . . You must do the thing you think you cannot do. Eleanor Roosevelt

  8. #37
    Member Array Kevan's Avatar
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    Re: the original video, what a prince of a guy! Makes me proud to be an American.
    I went to buy some camouflage pants, but I couldn't find any.

  9. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by theneko View Post

    Am I the only one that can't believe one BG made it "40 feet" after getting tagged with TWO .40 caliber rounds. I assume they were HP's... ? Makes you think!

    I carry a 9mm and now I wonder if need to "go bigger". If the BG wasn't so surprised and if he hadn't dropped his gun you would think he could have kept shooting.
    Your 9mm is probably just fine. You can go clear up to a .50 AE and beyond and still have those same results. Any handgun is a notorious impotent man stopper! Nothing including .50 cal is going to be a 100% one shot stop. Marksmanship and hitting vital spots on the target is the key to stopping an attack.

    High quality commercially available 9mm ammo is no less effective than any other if you do your part and hit where you are supposed to.

    Quote Originally Posted by theneko View Post
    Not to hijack the thread but does anyone know it the police (or a jury!) would call it excessive if you emptied the mag into the BG? I know this guy emptied his but he "only" hit twice. I mean that if I just kept shooting to ensure it was over, what happens if I nail the guy 10 times? Would the jury say "you didn't need to do that, you could have stopped at 2 or 3" or do people know better?
    People do not know better, and juries especially are easily swayed by a prosecutor who has it out to get you.

    However, if you are well enough educated in shooting dynamics, and have a competent attorney and possibly a good expert witness, you should be able to explain that away with sufficient explanation to a jury. There are several instances, well documented where it took well over 15 handgun rounds and multiple shotgun slugs to stop a drug crazed wacko!

    It may be difficult if there are lots of other questionable circumstances surrounding the shooting that would cause one to believe you executed the person. But it can be over come at trial.

    Quote Originally Posted by theneko View Post
    I was just curious because I haven't seen this discussed in many of the online forums. I have always been under the assumption that in that type of life threatening situation excessive is exctly what you want to be. Just didn't know if the liberal juries go after you for that (I live in Kalifornia so I have to expect it, or at least consider it!)
    Thx
    You really should invest in more reading material than just internet gun forums. Articles and books abound that go into the dynamics of shooting incidents and study actual cases in great depth.

    You don't know what you don't know... and that could be a great detriment to someone if they are ever involved in a shooting and have to stand trial.

    There is a wealth of information that explains these things and lots of case law that supports it. One only need to look and have the desire to gain the knowledge one needs to survive the courtroom as well as the initial incident.

    Stay Safe, and study case law and published data which can expand your knowledge base.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  10. #39
    VIP Member Array NCHornet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theneko View Post
    Wow, great story!

    Am I the only one that can't believe one BG made it "40 feet" after getting tagged with TWO .40 caliber rounds. I assume they were HP's... ? Makes you think!

    I carry a 9mm and now I wonder if need to "go bigger". If the BG wasn't so surprised and if he hadn't dropped his gun you would think he could have kept shooting.

    Not to hijack the thread but does anyone know it the police (or a jury!) would call it excessive if you emptied the mag into the BG? I know this guy emptied his but he "only" hit twice. I mean that if I just kept shooting to ensure it was over, what happens if I nail the guy 10 times? Would the jury say "you didn't need to do that, you could have stopped at 2 or 3" or do people know better? I was just curious because I haven't seen this discussed in many of the online forums. I have always been under the assumption that in that type of life threatening situation excessive is exctly what you want to be. Just didn't know if the liberal juries go after you for that (I live in Kalifornia so I have to expect it, or at least consider it!)
    Thx
    Maybe I missed something but I don't recall the fleeing bad guy only being hit twice. If it did state this I missed it, but I don't recall all of us foloow up shots missed besides the first two. In any event while the dude was still upright he was still a threat. Also there are hundreds reports of folks surviving and still fighting after many more than 2 40 cal shots, this is why I don't buy the 2 shots COM and then access. Yeah access while the bad guy returns fire, nope!! I will fire and continue to do so until the threat has been stopped 100%. My dad always told me that a injured animal can be very dangerous, I have seen it myself, and the same goes for us humans!!
    NCH
    When Seconds Count, The Cops Are Just Minutes Away!!
    Carry On!
    NCHornet

  11. #40
    Member Array theneko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    You really should invest in more reading material than just internet gun forums. Articles and books abound that go into the dynamics of shooting incidents and study actual cases in great depth.

    You don't know what you don't know... and that could be a great detriment to someone if they are ever involved in a shooting and have to stand trial.

    There is a wealth of information that explains these things and lots of case law that supports it. One only need to look and have the desire to gain the knowledge one needs to survive the courtroom as well as the initial incident.

    Stay Safe, and study case law and published data which can expand your knowledge base.
    Thanks for the info. I do have a large bookshelf of material that you mention, including Ayoob's "Gravest Extreme" so I have seen many examples of the BG not going down. I always assumed my 9mm with HP ammo would be the best round I can place accurateley so I stick with that. My main question was around the legal issues with shoting 10 times when 3, 4, or 5 would usually be suffifient (but not always!) That would be my plan too - shoot until dry then reload. Just didn't know - given all other facts on your side - if some/most juries would still nail you for being "excessive" when we all know that shooting until the threat is over is protocol.

    Thanks for all the great input,
    Neko

  12. #41
    Senior Member Array Bob O's Avatar
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    First, thanks for that great post!

    I'm the same age as the "true gentleman" that saved his life and his wife's - can really relate to the story.

    I carry for the same reasons he does.
    One difference - my gun is ALWAYS in arm's reach! It's never on the mantle, never in the safe, never in the other room. Can you imagine the outcome if he had left it on the mantle like he said he was planning to?

    The one thing that really bothered me about the interview was both the reporter and victim referring to the sleaze bags as "gentlemen". It's like referring to Adolf Hitler as a "kind and loving man". I would have puked if they referred to them as "victims" as the media often does.

    I'm am more determined than ever to be well armed and proficient with them at all times!

    Bobo
    Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other"
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  13. #42
    Member Array Swamp Fox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob O View Post
    The one thing that really bothered me about the interview was both the reporter and victim referring to the sleaze bags as "gentlemen".
    Talk about PC run amuck. I am so tired of tippy toeing around issues so that we can appear not to be offensive or intollerant. To me entering a man's property by force and pointing a gun in his face and stating that he is going to die is pretty down right offensive. How in the world one receives the title of gentlemen is beyond me.

    BTW - Originally in Merry Old England the term gentlman signified a man with an income derived from property, a legacy or some other source, and was thus independently wealthy and did not need to work.

    Now it means any male sleaze bag. What is society coming to?

  14. #43
    VIP Member Array NCHornet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob O View Post
    First, thanks for that great post!

    I'm the same age as the "true gentleman" that saved his life and his wife's - can really relate to the story.

    I carry for the same reasons he does.
    One difference - my gun is ALWAYS in arm's reach! It's never on the mantle, never in the safe, never in the other room. Can you imagine the outcome if he had left it on the mantle like he said he was planning to?

    The one thing that really bothered me about the interview was both the reporter and victim referring to the sleaze bags as "gentlemen". It's like referring to Adolf Hitler as a "kind and loving man". I would have puked if they referred to them as "victims" as the media often does.

    I'm am more determined than ever to be well armed and proficient with them at all times!

    Bobo
    I am actually glad he did this, otherwise the other side would take this and turn it into a racial killing, and poor little junior was just minding his own business when this white man just shot him to death!!! Were these guys dirtbags? Of course they were!! Would calling them dirtbags now help this man in anyway? Of course not!! Play it smart, these two idiots got what was coming to them, no need to give the anti's and the NAACP room to turn it into something it obviously wasn't.

    NCH
    When Seconds Count, The Cops Are Just Minutes Away!!
    Carry On!
    NCHornet

  15. #44
    Member Array Hawker's Avatar
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    I am glad the gentlemen was armed and protected himself and wife. He seemed a very calm, collected individual that did what he had to do. Two thugs gone... two responsible citizens still breathing.

    Now.... here's the rub...

    If the families of the deceased pursue a wrongful death suit or even criminal charges if the state's attorney goes that way, there are two points of contention.

    1. Thug one has crawled through the back door and was fired upon by Billy Jackson's last 7 rounds through the door. He fired 4 already and he stated that he had 11 rounds. When he crawled through the door to escape... the threat was for all purposes, gone.

    2. Thug Two was shot once, then when Jackson reshot Thug one (still standing and a threat) he turned and again shot Thug Two with a second shot. He admitted he did not see a weapon on Thug Two and Thug Two was down and bleeding from the head. The second shoot could be considered an execution shot by Jackson. Was the threat of Thug Two neutralized with the first shot? Only Mr. Jackson knows the truth.

    These are the arguments that will come out when lawyers get involved. What do they say.... every fired round has a lawyer attached to it? Had this been me, I would have never given a TV interview for the world to see. Too much information... too many things to question.

    I hope all works out well for Mr. and Mrs. Jackson. What a traumatic event to have to live with.

    You'all be careful out there.
    225th SAC "Phantom Hawk" - US Army - Vietnam 1969-70

  16. #45
    Member Array titleist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siafu View Post
    I wonder if there are b-ball courts in hell?
    That one got a laugh out of me.

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