Some should carry........Some should not

This is a discussion on Some should carry........Some should not within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I hope I have the b**** to do better should my turn ever come. But at least he did something (the wrong thing as it ...

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Thread: Some should carry........Some should not

  1. #16
    Member Array XD40's Avatar
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    I hope I have the b**** to do better should my turn ever come. But at least he did something (the wrong thing as it turns out) other than tuck and run while others were murdered.
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  3. #17
    Senior Member Array BlueLion's Avatar
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    I hear so many people willing to jump up and help a total stranger. It got this guy hurt. What he should have done as soon as he heard the fire was seek cover inside for himself and call PD. This is what can happend when we jump to the rescue in this manner. I hope he regains use of his leg.
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  4. #18
    Member Array grnzbra's Avatar
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    I don't think it was a fear of lawyers.
    As for Maldonado, McKown said he hopes whatever prompted his actions will be addressed so that he can become a productive member of society, and that he would be willing to help.
    McKown, standing, said to Maldonado, “I think you need to put that gun down, young man.”
    I don't know what kind of training was necessary for his CCW, but this indicates that he had some kind of idealized view of violence and self defense. In fact, my reaction from these statements is that he may not have know enough to be afraid of lawyers.

    As far as drawing fire away from others, I think that would fall under unintended consequences. The shooter went on to take several people hostage and could have easily killed them.

    McKown, 38, said he carried a gun and even trained for situations where he could keep innocent people from getting hurt.
    Cop wannabe?
    After going through the hassle of getting a CCW, when he had the opportunity to act he didn't and will now end up being a statistic against CCW.

    By the way, why did he think he had to shoot the guy in the head? I didn't see anything that indicated that he thought the guy was wearing body armor.

    One more thought:
    McKown, standing, said to Maldonado, “I think you need to put that gun down, young man.”
    When we practice, do we practice challenging someone? As in,
    DONT MOVE! DROP THE WEAPON!

    I know that if I just try to shout it out, my throat closes up and I squeek. I have to make sure that I do it from the diaphram ( or someplace like that - I can't "just do it")
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  5. #19
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    My answer to the specific question is, "Yes. Some should carry, and some should not." It is up to the individual to make the determination for himself; anything more restrictive will end up biting all gun owners in the arse someday.

    One example of a person who should not carry a defensive firearm is my ex-wife. I tried and tried to get her into the mindset one should have if he or she is to go armed. She could not do it, she lacked the judgment to know when to go to the firearm, and she lacked the desire to go find out or train.

    A good friend of mine also does not carry because his temper is too bad. He has never had any legal problems because of it, but in college and for a decade or so after, he could tend to get a little, well, martial about things. Instead, he has learned and taken to heart the issue of proper defensive mindset as much as any of us, with the only exception being that he does not carry a firearm. A guy like that, well, I'd say he's a mature and reasonable fellow.

    Best,
    Jon
    "You may not know it, but there's things that gnaw at a man worse than dyin'."

    Charles Travis Postlewaite, 1882

  6. #20
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    wonder how much training he did have. Part of constant training is reacting instictively , rather than sorting out what to do if the time comes.

  7. #21
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    I really do not understand what compelled him to re-holster and approach a guy who was already shooting people with a rifle.

    Having considered it a bit, I would either have gotten out of dodge (if I were with my wife or grandchild) or engaged (if alone).

    If engagement were the order of the day, I would not try to communicate with him. He has already commenced firing, and constitutes a lethal threat. Warning him is unwise, IMHO. Rifle versus pistol is not a good situation for the guy with the pistol. If he is within "minute of head" range, the only warning I want to give him is the report of the first round letting him know the second one is on the way very shortly.

    I guess for me, what it comes down to in this sort of situation is that if you are going to act, be decisive.

    Matt

  8. #22
    VIP Member Array Bud White's Avatar
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    Hard to arm chair quarterback ya just dont know how you would react even after training

  9. #23
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    Unreal

    That was the first time that I read a detailed account of this incident.

    I could say lots more but, you folks already have "spoken my mind" for me.

  10. #24
    Member Array DarthMuffin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grnzbra
    I don't know what kind of training was necessary for his CCW

    Cop wannabe?

    After going through the hassle of getting a CCW, when he had the opportunity to act he didn't and will now end up being a statistic against CCW.
    No training is required to get a CPL in WA. Basically if you're eligible to own a firearm at all (no felonies, mental history or domestic violence) then you get a CPL. I have no problem with this, you can't legislate common sense and force people to learn how to behave.

    I have a friend that works at an Excalibur knife store in Spokane. Everyone there falls into the stereotype of mall ninja, goth death-metal type, or role playing gamer. I don't know what his story is, he may be an exception but you don't get to be an assistant manager of a knife store without liking pointy things, y'know?

    Lastly, why is everyone saying this is a statistic *against* CCW? I don't get it. How does this make CCW people look bad? He reholstered the weapon before even confronting the guy, so the CCW has nothing to do with the outcome. It's just a case of very bad judgement and not using the correct tool for the job.

  11. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattLarson
    I really do not understand what compelled him to re-holster and approach a guy who was already shooting people with a rifle.

    Having considered it a bit, I would either have gotten out of dodge (if I were with my wife or grandchild) or engaged (if alone).

    If engagement were the order of the day, I would not try to communicate with him. He has already commenced firing, and constitutes a lethal threat. Warning him is unwise, IMHO. Rifle versus pistol is not a good situation for the guy with the pistol. If he is within "minute of head" range, the only warning I want to give him is the report of the first round letting him know the second one is on the way very shortly.

    I guess for me, what it comes down to in this sort of situation is that if you are going to act, be decisive.

    Matt
    I'm with you, Matt. The threat is real once he opens fire and he should be taken down immediately. I don't think you should need to hesitate in this type of situation....
    Bumper
    Coimhéad fearg fhear na foighde; Beware the anger of a patient man.

  12. #26
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    makes sense, either run, shoot or take hard cover.

  13. #27
    Member Array grnzbra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarthMuffin
    Lastly, why is everyone saying this is a statistic *against* CCW? I don't get it. How does this make CCW people look bad? He reholstered the weapon before even confronting the guy, so the CCW has nothing to do with the outcome. It's just a case of very bad judgement and not using the correct tool for the job.
    This is right up there with "if you have a gun for protection, it will be taken away from you and used against you". I'd point out that in spite of his extensive training and constant practice he still was shot and is paralized and is now going to be going for rehabilitation and that's going to help drive everyone's premiums up, bla-blah, bla-blah, bla-blah. Keep in mind, truth is not a requirement here.

    If I were an anti, I'd just love this incident. It won't surprise me in the least if this guy shows up in bed with Sara and her ilk at some time in the future.

    Hard to arm chair quarterback ya just dont know how you would react even after training
    That's the whole point of armchair quarterbacking, so that if the time comes, we will have some frame of reference from real life. Perhaps, when one of us faces someone in a mall who is shooting people, we will remember what happened to the guy whose gun was in his belt and who approched the shooter from the position of a benevolent father figure ("I think you need to put that gun down, young man.” ). All of these armchair quarterback sessions go to adding to our base of knowledge of things done right and things done wrong.
    Last edited by grnzbra; December 1st, 2005 at 09:23 AM.
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  14. #28
    Senior Member Array rachilders's Avatar
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    The victim said he carried a gun and trained regularly for just this sort of situation, but when it happened, it simply overwhelmed him. I think that statement speaks volumes to us all.

    We train, we practice, we plan strategies and we hope it's enough if the time ever comes that our training is put to the test. The one thing we CAN'T do is know how we'll react until we're actually forced to use our weapon. Will I freeze and be unable to react at all? Will I hesitate due to sympathy for the shooter or fear of making a wrong decision, giving him time to shoot me or someone else? Maybe I'll simply go into auto mode and mindlessly allow my training to control my response to the threat. I just don't know. I've never been in that position and, God willing and with any luck at all, I never will. Until that day happens however, I'll plan, train and pray that if I ever find myself stuck in a proverbial swamp and I’m up to my ears in Alligators, I can keep my head above water and do what must be done to save myself and those around me.
    "... Americans... we want a safe home, to keep the money we make and shoot bad guys." -- Denny Crane

  15. #29
    Member Array grnzbra's Avatar
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    Well, since we don't know, and don't come anywhere near doing this on a daily basis, perhaps we should hang up our guns and leave it up to the professionals.
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  16. #30
    Member Array grnzbra's Avatar
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    Actually, we do know (or at least have a pretty good idea). We have plenty of examples of CCWers who didn't freeze up. Some saved lives (the students at the law school who armed themselves) and some were killed (the fellow in Texas earlier this year who kept doing body shots at the guy wearing a vest). That's the point of training. People usually freeze up when they have no idea what they are doing.

    I have to question what kind of training he did. Remember, he didn't train to be able to engage in self defense, he trained to save others. Has anyone run into a firearms instructor who taught from the mindset that the purpose of your CCW is so you can go out and save others? So, perhaps his "training" was faulty.
    There's a reason The Sopranos is set in New Jersey.
    Basic Pistol

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