Some should carry........Some should not

This is a discussion on Some should carry........Some should not within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by RSSZ Heck guys,I'll say it.(But I'll be sweet) If he had training--what kind of training?? He made several very foolish mistakes. It's ...

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Thread: Some should carry........Some should not

  1. #31
    Senior Member Array dpesec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RSSZ
    Heck guys,I'll say it.(But I'll be sweet) If he had training--what kind of training?? He made several very foolish mistakes. It's obvious that he didn't have the correct mindset.He wasn't really sure of himself. That is exactly why this forum is so important to all of us out in the REAL world.I really hope that he is not a example of what a large percent of us CCW'ers would/will do. I have,and will, make mistakes--BUT-- when it comes time to shoot I'LL SHOOT. Don't know 'bout the rest of you guys and gals out there but this is a hard cold fact. I know myself very well.----------
    I was talking about this with an offduty LEO. If he wasn't on duty, we both agreed that the first priority would be to get the civilians out then shoot of we must, but get the people out.
    He expressed some concern about going back in because all the LEOs would know is "man with a gun" and he wouldn't want to be a target. I mentioned that my weapon has a laser sight. I told him that that woudl allow me to aim while still undercover. He throught that would be a good idea.
    Dave

    “The highest obligation and privilege of citizenship is that of bearing arms”. General George Patton—US Army

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  3. #32
    Member Array grnzbra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dpesec
    He expressed some concern about going back in because all the LEOs would know is "man with a gun" and he wouldn't want to be a target.
    That is a very real concern. Ayoob deals with it in LFI-1. In his DVD, Close Range Gunfighting, Suarez describes ways to hold the gun that will minimize this problem.
    There's a reason The Sopranos is set in New Jersey.
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  4. #33
    Senior Member Array rachilders's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grnzbra
    Well, since we don't know, and don't come anywhere near doing this on a daily basis, perhaps we should hang up our guns and leave it up to the professionals.
    Nope, just saying it's easy to second guess someone else after the smoke has cleared. Until we've been in the same situation, we don't know what we'll do under the stress. Ask any combat soldier or cop who's been in the line of fire. I may not think he handled the whole situation the best way or the way I might have, but he didn't run and didn't freeze up.
    "... Americans... we want a safe home, to keep the money we make and shoot bad guys." -- Denny Crane

  5. #34
    Member Array grnzbra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rachilders
    ...but he didn't run and didn't freeze up.
    I'm not sure if it was here or on warriortalk.com , that I saw a discussion that pointed out that "freezing up" doesn't just mean doing a "deer in the headlights". It could also consist of doing totally useless stuff.

    Yes, he ran to the sound of the gun expecting to save people and had a clear shot that could have saved people (it's just luck that no one died) and could neither take the shot nor challenge the guy effectively.

    From his comments, it seems like he had a totally unrealistic expectation of what it would be like, so he tried to "wing it". That's why we armchair quarterback; to get feedback from various sources that we do have some idea of reality. The great thing about doing it here, rather than at the local gun emporium is that the group is big enough and has varied enough experience to generate some serious feedback.
    Last edited by grnzbra; December 1st, 2005 at 01:41 PM.
    There's a reason The Sopranos is set in New Jersey.
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  6. #35
    Senior Member Array dpesec's Avatar
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    I thnk there was an article in CCW about that too.
    I remember the first time I shot at a human silhouette target. I was very uncomfortable. I asked myself could I really pull the trigger. Well, I achieved expert, so I think I could.
    Dave

    “The highest obligation and privilege of citizenship is that of bearing arms”. General George Patton—US Army

    Vis et Veneratio

    "So this is how democracy dies: to thunderous applause." Actress Natalie Portman as Padme in Star Wars Revenge of the Sith

  7. #36
    Member Array Kompact9's Avatar
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    Mindset/Shot Placement...Mindset/Shot Placement...etc. I hope he recovers fully.
    noli nothis permittere te terere...

  8. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by grnzbra
    That is a very real concern. Ayoob deals with it in LFI-1. In his DVD, Close Range Gunfighting, Suarez describes ways to hold the gun that will minimize this problem.
    I am glad someone mentioned LFI. You may like Ayoob, and you may not. My personal experience with the substance and instructors of LFI-I, though, was superb. It is an excellent course in all the basic aspects of armed self-defense - mechanical, emotional, legal, etc. In fact, when I read about the incident that started this thread, the very first thought I had was about how much trouble this guy might have saved himself he'd taken LFI-1.

    Frankly I wish that everyone who goes armed for self defense would take it, not as a requirement or for reasons related to me but because of the positive information each student walks away from the course with. Most of us know we don't know it all, but many of us may not realize the extent to which we are lacking. I know I sure didn't!

    LFI-I was a big, big wake-up call, and after it was over and while I was driving home, I actually got the sweats thinking about what could have happened to me had I been thrust into a situation and not received what I got in the course. We had doctors, lawyers, cops and a judge in our class, and every single person - to a man - counted it among the most useful educational experiences he'd encountered.

    Best,
    Jon
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  9. #38
    Senior Member Array rachilders's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grnzbra
    I'm not sure if it was here or on warriortalk.com , that I saw a discussion that pointed out that "freezing up" doesn't just mean doing a "deer in the headlights". It could also consist of doing totally useless stuff.

    Yes, he ran to the sound of the gun expecting to save people and had a clear shot that could have saved people (it's just luck that no one died) and could neither take the shot nor challenge the guy effectively.

    From his comments, it seems like he had a totally unrealistic expectation of what it would be like, so he tried to "wing it". That's why we armchair quarterback; to get feedback from various sources that we do have some idea of reality. The great thing about doing it here, rather than at the local gun emporium is that the group is big enough and has varied enough experience to generate some serious feedback.
    I totally agree with almost every word you said. Like I said earlier, I don't think the situation was handled in the best possible manner and I see several things I would have done differently. I was just making a point that this guy wasn't expecting trouble (his first mistake. Like the Boy Scouts say, "Be Prepared"), he let his emotions over ride his common sense by holstering his weapon after the shooter was in sight and he saw it was a kid, he didn't remain under cover when he saw the shooter or he was armed, plus he (again) let his guard down when he saw the shooters age and attempted to talk to him like a teacher or parent rather than treating him like a person with a gun and the obvious willingness to use it. The man made some big mistakes and will be paying for those mistakes for the rest of his life.

    I also want to point out that all the facts still aren't known about the event. Let's try not to be too hard on him since we weren't there and he did what he felt was the best course of action at the time. Hind sight is a wonderful thing. It 's a shame we only get the benefit of it AFTER it's too late to do us any good. Come to think of it, we should be thanking him since all of us can learn from his mistakes while he pays the price for making them.
    "... Americans... we want a safe home, to keep the money we make and shoot bad guys." -- Denny Crane

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