New to firearms in general, have some C&C questions from a newbie, need good advice!
This is a discussion on New to firearms in general, have some C&C questions from a newbie, need good advice! within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Here's a quick history on my experience with firearms thus far. 34 years old, hadn't even held a firearm (pistol or otherwise) since shooting a ...
August 12th, 2008 04:23 PM
New to firearms in general, have some C&C questions from a newbie, need good advice!
Here's a quick history on my experience with firearms thus far. 34 years old, hadn't even held a firearm (pistol or otherwise) since shooting a .22 at least a decade ago...previous to that, shot a .22 rifle a few times as a kid. In my youth (under 30 years) I knew I wasn't responsible enough for a firearm, thus I never got one or even had an interest. Completely brainwashed by parents into the "guns are bad" opinion; wouldn't even let me have a squirt gun as a kid (that's just wrong).
Fast forward to today and a few months ago I went shooting with a friend. Shot a 1911, XD, .38 Special J Frame, M4, 308 Rifle (or 306?), Mossberg & Remington shotguns in addition to a 9MM that I can't remember which it was (brand/model unknown).
...I'm hooked. Plus I have a family now and I think it's important to be armed/protected etc (firm beleiver in 2nd amendment).
I picked up a Glock G22 .40 Cal a few months ago, I've put about 700+ rounds through it, just took the NRA basic pistol class and now feel fairly comfortable at the range with it.
I'm going to get a conceal and carry (CHL) here in Oregon not to carry regularly, but more just to have it. If I'm going to a questionable area at a bad time of day etc, I'd take it with me, otherwise wouldn't be taking it daily (at least not yet, for sure).
My concern is in regards to safety and being "cocked and locked" while carrying. Why? Even chambering a round in my home gives me the creeps...That's why.
You know how it's said that some people who are really afraid of heights are sometimes drawn to the edge of a building or cliff if they are standing near one, lose their balance and their body almost wants to go over? Having a round chambered gives me that same feeling. I feel like I would go to remove the magazine and remove the chambered round and instead, without thinking about it or knowing I'm doing it would just pull the trigger for some reason...It's hard to explain...Hopefully that makes sense?
I'm sure over the years in front of me I'll get more use to things and these issues would subside, but for the time being with this information in mind, I'm wondering what would be the best pistol and best condition for me to carry in on the rare occassions that I would?
The idea of a glock with a round in the chamber just freaks me out, one slip on that trigger and that's it. The idea of a cocked and locked 1911 micro also worries me, one slip of the safety a bump in the wrong direction(s) and poof! (also I think seeing the hammer up on it is a physcological thing too). Revolvers like a J frame? Can't stand them, the lack of control when firing is just nutts to me, that tiny thing trys to fly out of your hand when firing it. DA's like an FNP45...maybe if made small enough? Also wondering if there is a round, sort of like a blank (near harmless) but yet with enough energy to rack the slide if fired exists to keep as a first round in a glock? Then in a situation pull the trigger twice instead of once...one handed, faster than having to rack slide and a lot safer?
So far I'm leaning towards a Glock G26 or G30 no round chambered. I'm still open to a 1911 like the Springfield micro-compact but my understanding is they are more dangerous to not only carry, but get into the decocked state than carrying them cocked and locked. Also still open to a DA but not a revolver.
Anyway, again...looking for some good solid advice not criticism or "then don't carry if your that concerned" etc...Thanks in advance!
August 12th, 2008 04:32 PM
A cocked and locked 1911 is one of the safest things out there. Do a search on the internet there are many articles written about it.
It takes three distinct actions to get a cocked and locked 1911 to fire.
1) disengage safety
2) grip handle to depress grip safety
3) depress the trigger.
With a properly holstered gun it will never to off.
Glocks do not have safeties. Their safety device is a long and hard DA trigger pull. Similar to most revolvers. They also will not fire if carried in a proper holster.
Much of your fear has to do with the fact that you are very new to guns, much of what you know and how you feel is derived from movies and media.
I would suggest, to make yourself comfortable, to carry around the house before you venture outside. That way you can figure out your concealment, get comfortable carrying, and realize that guns don't just go off by themselves.
There are literally thousands of cops carrying glocks around every single day. None of them have holes in their feet because the guns go off.
You can also search about carrying with a chambered round. DO IT. Otherwise you're carrying around a worthless piece of metal.
Also, better to need it and not have it than to have it and not need it....carry always, you never know where evil lurks.
Speak softly, and carry a big stick.
August 12th, 2008 04:33 PM
It's your choice to carry with or without a round chambered; there are lots of people who carry "Israeli" and there are lots more who carry chambered.
I have been carrying a Glock daily for several years with a round chambered. I am confident that any holster I use completely covers the trigger guard and there's no way it will fire. I am not perfect, so there is a theoretical possibility that I may commit a stupid discharge, but I am convinced I am competent enough to never pull the trigger when I don't plan to---I keep my finger out of the trigger guard until I am lined up on a target I intend to shoot.
I balance the possibility of unplanned discharge against the time and two-hand effort required for me to chamber a round in a struggle, and saving time wins.
August 12th, 2008 04:37 PM
Wow, that's a heck of a first post.
For one thing, you never mentioned a holster. You seem worried about the bumps and nudges that your firearm might be exposed to, but 99% of holsters cover the trigger guard, therefore preventing the trigger from being pulled. A gun just simply does not fire unless someone or something pulls the trigger.
As far as the carrying with a round in the chamber, there is nothing we can say to convince you it is safe(it is), because it is not a logical fear, but an emotional one, and sometimes those are the hardest to get over.
The way I got over that fear was to carry without one in the chamber, but with my XD 'cocked', i.e. I would rack the slide before inserting the magazine. That way, if the trigger was ever pulled it would 'fire', but there would not be a round in the chamber. I figured if I ever heard that 'click', I would know I was right to not want a round in the chamber.
I never heard the click, and have been carrying a loaded weapon ever since.
As far as your particular dilemma, a Glock is a fine carry weapon, so is a 1911. You might want to try a mixture of the two for your first carry weapon, though. The new Springfield XD comes with a manual safety, as well, as the trigger safety, the grip safety, and a fairly strong trigger pull.
The stars would truly have to align for the safety to be 'bumped off', the grip safety depressed, the trigger safety depressed, and the trigger pulled back with enough force to fire the weapon while it is in a quality holster.
As a matter of fact, it would take a lot more than the stars aligning.
Good luck with your decision and Welcome to the Forum!
August 12th, 2008 04:42 PM
Unless you have a crystal ball that I've never heard of IMHO having a concealed carry permit and leaving your gun at home isn't very practical,you never know when you might need it,there was a robbery and murder not to long ago and one victim had a concealed license and they found his gun at home,his mom said he always carried but for some reason the one time he really needed it he left it at home.also guns don't just go off it requires pulling the trigger,if you keep your booger hook off the trigger not a problem,as far as a revolver goes you always have one in the pipe so to speak the only thing that prevents it firing is not pulling the trigger.You just need to be around firearms more and practice safe weapons handling,there is a certain level of respect for what they can do that is healthy,but there is no need to be scared of a gun that you have control over.
"Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
--Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .
August 12th, 2008 04:52 PM
Just like a revolver, the holster serves as the first safety for a Glock. I carry my G26 almost all the time, and when I don't I carry the little Kel-Tec P3AT 380. Both area always loaded with a bullet in the chamber. The first safety is the Nemesis holster, or other that I carry them in.
When you go to the range, always practice finger control, and never put your finger on the trigger until your ready to fire.
I've saw a video where a Glock was pitched out of an airplane when it flew over the runway, and the dummy round in the chamber never fired. Yet the demonstrator then picked up the Glock and had no problem firing that dummy round when he pulled the trigger
A Glock is the safest pistol in the world. Why; if you have young children at home, simple remove the round from the chamber when you get home, and place it in the magazine. Yes, I know that mean your carrying one less rounds, but that's a minor trade off, for feeling that your doing the right thing at home. And a Glock will never jam on you, when your chambering a round.
One of my best friends did that when he had young kids at home, and I do that now, when we have guest with kids visiting. Then chamber a round when I leave the house.
August 12th, 2008 04:54 PM
Thanks for all the quick replies!
Question in regards to the 1911's needing to have the safety bumped off, grip safety pressed and trigger safety pressed. I am more concerned about the possibility of that hammer somehow being pushed/bumped whatever down and hitting the primer and discharging. Is there absolutely no way that hammer could even touch the primer without the safety release, the grip safety pressed and the trigger safety pressed? Even if the pistol was somehow defective (not that I have a defective 1911, I just know anything can break and thus not function properly)?
August 12th, 2008 05:03 PM
I am only going to address the loading and unloading part. Get a 5 gallon bucket or larger container and fill it with sand the deeper the better. When you need to rack one in or out of the chamber while at home point the muzzle at the center of the sand while doing so. There are also Balistic safety mats available.
You should become more comfortable as time goes by.
"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." - Thomas Jefferson
August 12th, 2008 05:10 PM
Oops, that's backwards. Its better to HAVE IT and not need it that it is to NEED IT and not have it.
Originally Posted by youngda9
Also, consider what many have said here before. Your most important safety feature is the one that resides between your ears. Just remember to never put your finger on the trigger until you're ready to shoot.
I can't seem to find it but I believe there was a poll taken here awhile back where forum members were asked if they'd ever had an accidental discharge. There weren't very many. Maybe someone here know where that thread is.
Anyway, welcome to the forum!
August 12th, 2008 05:12 PM
Someone on here has a sig line...it says something similar to "the person who carries in condition 3 has two empty chambers: one in the gun and the other in the head" or something like that. Who it is, I dont know. I do know that I agree. If you are going to carry, carry.
EVIL PREVAILS WHEN GOOD MEN FAIL TO ACT.
August 12th, 2008 05:17 PM
I would suggest taking a formal training course on basic pistol safety first. Buddies can help you but formal instruction is structured to not forget to explain to you. As far as waht to carry or carry empty chamber, I feel once you get used to carrying it will resolve itself as a problem.
I carried my 1911 for a week around the house with a empty chamber just to prove the gun will not drop the hammer unintentionally. Been carrying Cocked and Locked ever since.
"In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson
Nemo Me Impune Lacesset
August 12th, 2008 05:23 PM
First off, welcome from central Mississippi.
Today, there are no places that do not fit into that description. When criminals are brave/stupid enough to go into a police station and try to rob the police, then no place is truly safe.
I'm going to get a conceal and carry (CHL) here in Oregon not to carry regularly, but more just to have it. If I'm going to a questionable area at a bad time of day etc
, I'd take it with me, otherwise wouldn't be taking it daily (at least not yet, for sure).
Third, like Kerbouchard said, a good quality holster will prevent anything from pulling the trigger. As far as hitting the hammer and forcing it to strike the firing pin, it would take a pretty severe bump to even cause the hammer to fall.
August 12th, 2008 05:28 PM
I got over both of your concerns by carrying at home with a good holster and with one in the chamber. You will slowly mentally get over the ND fears and also become comfortable with carrying all the time.
August 12th, 2008 05:48 PM
Nice catch...my brain and my fingers aren't engauged sometimes.
Originally Posted by agentmel
Speak softly, and carry a big stick.
August 12th, 2008 05:49 PM
Welcome to the Forum. You'll find this place to be the best collective knowledge in the web! I understand your apprehension, though time will show you it's unfounded. The XD would be a great pistol to minimize your fears and still accomplish your goal. I'll second Deadeye's statement that there are no places that do not fit into that description. When criminals are brave/stupid enough to go into a police station and try to rob the police, then no place is truly safe.
. It happens everywhere, at any time of day or night. Those who are intent on taking what's your's or harming you or your family won't care where they are. You need to be ready and you've already taken a very big step in the right direction. Congratulations and don't be a stranger around here!
BE PREPARED - Noah didn't build the Ark when it was raining!
Si vis pacem, para bellum
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