Off shoot of "Some Should Carry" - Page 5

Off shoot of "Some Should Carry"

This is a discussion on Off shoot of "Some Should Carry" within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Phil Elmore The point I was making, however, is that we can't both be correct when our opinions differ. ;) And who ...

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Thread: Off shoot of "Some Should Carry"

  1. #61
    Senior Member Array rachilders's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Elmore
    The point I was making, however, is that we can't both be correct when our opinions differ. ;)
    And who makes the decision as to which opinion is the correct one? Since we both have a vested interest, how can either party be impartial and judge with an unbiased opinion? It’s clear that you feel yours is correct and mine isn’t while why should I concede to your view simply because you say so? I though the whole point of this thread was you get different points of view, not for one group to brow beat the others into conceding their opinion is the ONLY correct opinion. Opinions are like a#*holes, we all have one and the other guys usually stinks. As for the concept that two opposing views can't be correct, it reminds me of the question when a glass contains 50% of a liquid, is it half empty of half full? To me, it depends on your reference point. Then again, as I’ve been told about with most things I’ve said in this thread, I'm probably wrong.
    "... Americans... we want a safe home, to keep the money we make and shoot bad guys." -- Denny Crane


  2. #62
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    A half full/empty glass shows how two different opinions are both right/wrong at the same time. Only common sense and an open mind can make a logical decision as to right or wrong, good or bad, for a particular individual or situation. Sweeping laws brush aside (can't I have one pun here) the liberty of the law abiding and are scoffed at by, you guessed it, the scofflaws. While we endeavor to seek the truth on many levels, it's when we express it that others misunderstand or object from their perspective, which is a subjective spin on their knowledge of reality. How fuzzy is that? My point is that there must come a time to hold fast to your integrity without compromise in the face of opposition opinion. "Give me liberty or give me death."
    Liberty, Property, or Death - Jonathan Gardner's powder horn inscription 1776

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  3. #63
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    Don't want this thread to be entirely swinging to a treatise on ''opinion'' but as far as I am concerned, anyone and everyone has a right to his/her opinion. The perception of how ''right'' or not that is will always be based on the observer's own actual or perceived objectivity. That in itself often being a subject of scrutiny!

    Opinion may sometimes also be simply even theory - not always perhaps seeming sound or backed up but in the end it is IMO best after arguing one's position to simply ''agree to disagree''. Unfortunately debate thru text can be tiresome and frustrating compared with ftf verbal dialog - misunderstandings occur and sometimes tempers can get frazzled. Invariably worse too when contentious issues involved.
    Then again, as I've been told about with most things I've said in this thread, I'm probably wrong
    Robert - far as I am concerned you have expressed valid opinions - that sits just fine with me
    Chris - P95
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  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by rachilders
    As for the concept that two opposing views can't be correct, it reminds me of the question when a glass contains 50% of a liquid, is it half empty of half full? To me, it depends on your reference point. Then again, as I’ve been told about with most things I’ve said in this thread, I'm probably wrong.
    Chris has already pretty much said it already, but I will say it as well. Your opinion is as valid as any other here. I have not seen anything in your posts that would be considered "wrong". I find myself agreeing with many of the opinions and also agreeing with opposing opinions and, as such, the 1/2 full and 1/2 empty glass analogy is a good one. This really has been a very good thread, Jon.
    Bumper
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  5. #65
    Ex Member Array Phil Elmore's Avatar
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    The statements, "This glass is half empty" and "This glass is half full" are not diametrically opposed, however. They express the same information in different ways. Thus they are the same factual statement that indicates a vessel containing 50% of its capacity for liquid.

    An opinion that does not bear up under logical analysis (remembering that logic is the science of non-contradictory identification) in context (logic applied to how a given fact is connected to other existents) is wrong compared to an opinion that does.

    We must never confuse differing contexts for contradictory facts.

  6. #66
    Member Array DaveT's Avatar
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    I enjoy the exchange of differing viewpoints, and usually end up seeing something in both that is valid.

    rachilders speaks from the heart, I understand that.

    After I put the dictionary down, I can understand Phil Elmore's point of view also !

  7. #67
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    I must not belabor this stuff but Phil - I would add that logic is not in and of itself irrefutable - other than to the person who sees that logic - his way! This is what can leave opinions wide open - simply that logic is not IMO a universal factor tho we as individuals will see our own logic as such and universally applicable!

    Don't let us forget the ''logic'' sometimes tried by anti's (in amongst their mainly emotion-driven efforts!). It differs from ours - by light years.
    We must never confuse differing contexts for contradictory facts.
    I'll buy that
    Chris - P95
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    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


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  8. #68
    Ex Member Array Phil Elmore's Avatar
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    All attempts to undercut (credibly) the validity of reason ultimately rely on reason to make the attempt. ;)

  9. #69
    Ex Member Array Phil Elmore's Avatar
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    I didn't mean it as an insult, which is why I phrased it as I did. I was simply responding to his response, which was something like, "Again in English?"

  10. #70
    Ex Member Array Phil Elmore's Avatar
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    Now that's strange. I responded to your post, Bumper, and it put my response ahead of yours.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Elmore
    An inability to understand written English should not be construed as a failure on the part of another to write in English.
    My point is that most people understood what he was trying to say. He has an opinion that is as valid as yours and I understood his as well as yours. They both had validity to me, but your opinion is no more valid than his. They are opinions based on the logic of the indivdual. I am able to accept other people's opinions even though I don't fully agree with them. It appears you are not, which is okay as long as high brow potshots are not taken. Your quote above falls into that category.
    Bumper
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  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Elmore
    Now that's strange. I responded to your post, Bumper, and it put my response ahead of yours.
    LOL, yeah I just noticed that. We have been having some host related problems over the last week or so and they, ummm, fixed them. I am not sure what is going on with the time. Looks like maybe they adjusted the time on the server.

    Anyway, sometimes written text in a forum comes across sounding completely different than what the writer intended. Maybe this was one of those times. I want our members to be able to speak their opinions without much more than a "we will have to agree to disagree" unless someone really gets funky on us. We all have alot to gain by the varied experiences and opinions of our members. Well, most of them....
    Bumper
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  13. #73
    Senior Member Array rachilders's Avatar
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    This thread has had a heck of a run in it's short life. Not to cut it off before it's time, but with everything that's been said here, have we beat this tired old horse to death yet??
    "... Americans... we want a safe home, to keep the money we make and shoot bad guys." -- Denny Crane

  14. #74
    Distinguished Member Array Stetson's Avatar
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    I think Maine has it right to!

  15. #75
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    Whew....I'm just damn glad I was totally late to this party!!

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