August 15th, 2008 07:45 AM
Virginia's CCw laws are weird about Bar carry. You can not legally carry concealed , but open carry is allowed, provided the establishment does not have a "no firearms" sign posted . Of course the restaurant can still ask that you leave or remove your gun from the premises, even without a sign. Our esteemed Governor Kane has decreed on his own that DAs can carry a concealed weapon in a bar and they are also allowed to drink. This executive decree was issued shortly after he vetoed a bill which would have allowed CCW in places which serve alcohol. The bill which he vetoed stated that carry would not be allowed if you were drinking. At least I can say with pride, "I did not vote for the idiot!"
August 15th, 2008 08:53 AM
I'll have to say I totally agree with Dave from Florida.
If you know you can limit how much you drink, then I don't see a problem. If your one of those people who drink to you find the floor. Then you should not be carrying a gun in the first place.
August 15th, 2008 08:54 AM
Originally Posted by Captain Crunch
I had to chuckle...this was beat to death a few months ago. Politics, religion, and alchohol...
August 15th, 2008 09:10 AM
sometimes its good to have a refresher course.
Let's Roll - Todd Beamer
August 15th, 2008 09:13 AM
Sometimes, it's just too hard to resist . . .
Originally Posted by bandit383
"We're paratroopers. We're supposed to be surrounded!" Dick Winters
August 15th, 2008 03:56 PM
Since we are beating this horse, let's keep at it
The last time I got drunk (to the point I told my wife: "It's better that you drive") was New Year Eve 1981 ...
In my job, there is a mandatory 8 hours between the "bottle and the throttle". In almost 40 years of flying, I've NEVER broken the rule !!!
However, if I am not on call, I drink a glass of beer with my dinner; I don't believe my judgment is significantly impaired.
On the other hand, I have been tired to the point I was really impaired.
I have been in pain (kidney stone) where I didn't know what I was doing ...
Also, I know people who cannot have only ONE drink; if they start they'll stop rolling on the floor !!!
So I believe demonizing alcohol is like blaming guns for crime.
It is up to the individual to know what his condition is and decide whether he/she should drive, carry, etc. BTW a lot more people are killed by drunk driving than by "drunk carrying" and that's unacceptable !!!
Here in Florida, we carry under a kind of 51% rule, and I have yet to hear about a SUI (shooting under the influence) by a legal CCW'er...
Sorry for the long post; I didn't get to beat the horse the first time around
The first rule of a gunfight: "Don't be there !"
The second rule: "Bring enough gun"
jfl (NRA Life Member/Instructor - GOA - IDPA - GSSF - ex-IHMSA)
August 15th, 2008 04:30 PM
Uh oh, I always thought it was "No smoking within 8 hours of piloting an aircraft, and no drinking within 8 feet of the aircraft."
Originally Posted by jfl
"We're paratroopers. We're supposed to be surrounded!" Dick Winters
August 15th, 2008 05:37 PM
August 15th, 2008 06:02 PM
The right to carry in a bar is a good one. While I don't engage in drinking in bars anymore (fun but the expense can buy more firearms and ammo instead), I have friends who do. These guys have one or two and that's it. Unlike a lot of people, they know what the limit is and when to stop. I have no problem with that at all.
Originally Posted by 762
"[A]rms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. . . Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them."
- Thomas Paine, Thoughts On Defensive War, 1775
August 15th, 2008 09:40 PM
Like the OP I am in Nevada. It is legal to carry and drink in establishments that serve adult beverages here. I often have a drink and or a glass of wine when out to dinner. I carry. I have not shot anyone so far.
In Nevada, if you are in a bar and you shoot someone what makes it a good shoot is not if you had a drink, but was it a good shoot.
NV: Update on Winnemucca shooting - Bar Patron in "good shoot" - latest story from the RJ
May 26, 2008
Winnemucca police statement on bar shootings
Statement from the Winnemucca Police Department:
On Sunday May 25, 2008 at approximately 2:30 a.m. the Winnemucca Police Department was dispatched to the Players Bar and Grill located at 1062 South Grass Valley Road on the report of numerous shots fired and multiple gunshot victims. A combined law enforcement team consisting of Officers from the Winnemucca Police Department and Deputies from the Humboldt County Sheriff’s Office responded to the dispatch call and secured the scene. There were approximately 300 patrons in and around the bar. No shots were fired by law enforcement during the incident.
The officers on scene discovered three adult males who had died from obvious gunshot wounds. Two additional gunshot victims were also located. One of these victims, a 34 year old male, was transported to Humboldt General Hospital via private vehicle. The other victim, a 22 year old female, was transported via Humboldt County Ambulance. Both of these injured parties were treated and admitted to Humboldt General Hospital in “stable condition”. Both victims have now been released from the hospital.
The initial investigation indicated that there had been two separate shooters during the incident. One of the alleged shooters, Ernesto Fuentes Villagomez, age 30 of Winnemucca, was among the three men who were dead on arrival. The other was a 48 year old Reno man who was initially taken into custody at the scene as a person of interest.
The subsequent investigation lead detectives to believe that Villagomez entered the bar and at some point began firing multiple rounds. At least two of these rounds struck and killed the other two decedents, Jose Torres age, 20 and his brother Margarito Torres, age 19 both of Winnemucca. At some point during this shooting spree Villagomez allegedly stopped and according to witnesses reloaded his high capacity handgun and began shooting again.
It was at this point that the second shooter, the Reno resident, produced a concealed handgun and proceeded to fire upon Villagomez who succumbed to his wounds. The Reno resident was in possession of a valid Concealed Carry Permit issued through the Washoe County Sheriff’s Office.
After further investigation as well as ongoing discussions with Humboldt County District Attorney Russell Smith, the decision was made that the shooting of Villagomez by the Reno man was a justifiable homicide as outlined in Nevada Revised Statute 200.120 and 200.160. Because of this the Reno man was released from police custody.
Although the shooting occurred during the Runnamucca event weekend there is no evidence linking the incident to any rival motorcycle gangs or clubs. Additionally, each of the decedents and victims were all Winnemucca residents. The investigation is currently pursuing a lead that indicates that this event may have been the result of a long standing feud between several families. There have been no further acts of violence reported in relation to this incident.
The Winnemucca Police Department utilized the services of the Washoe County Crime Lab to assist with the processing of the crime scene. Additional support in the investigation was provided by the Humboldt County Sheriff’s Office, the Department of Public Safety – Investigation and Highway Patrol Divisions, and the Humboldt County District Attorney’s Office.
No mention of how much if any the "Reno man" may have had to drink. It was just "a justifiable homicide as outlined in Nevada Revised Statute 200.120 and 200.160."
I love Nevada.
August 15th, 2008 10:51 PM
The threat of losing one's mind and control while carrying a defensive sidearm does indeed keep me vigilant, because impairment and guns don't mix well. Impairment and most anything else doesn't mix well.
Originally Posted by 762
As for laws branding as criminal the presence in a building where alcoholic beverages are sold, I believe it's missing the mark completely. It's not the building, nor is it the lure. It's the impairment, which can come from alcohol, drugs, medicines, too much time in a sauna/hottub, and a number of other things. So long as you're not impaired and act responsibly and legally, it should be irrelevant what building you walk into. IMO, it should be irrelevant what drink/food you have. There are already truck loads of laws against everything from murder to driving your car through a window ... and everything in between. Losing control of your wits with a firearm is already covered under a half-dozen statutes.
A drop doesn't impair function or cognition, unless stupidly mixed with incompatible pharmaceuticals. For most folks, neither does a few ounces of a mild alcoholic drink, particularly if taken with a meal. If you drink , you're not a threat. That only comes if from choosing to engage in irresponsible or criminal behavior, which may or may not be induced by impairment.
It's not the vehicle. It's the ramming it into the bus full of nuns.
It's not the billiards cue. It's the swinging it at the head of someone across the table.
It's not the <whatever>. It's the criminal action you choose to engage in.
Alcohol isn't the issue. The impairment during criminal action is.
Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
self defense (A.O.J.).
How does disarming
the number of victims?
Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos)
NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.
August 16th, 2008 07:44 AM
So it is not about the consumption of alcohol. It is whether or not an individual behaves like we expect a responsible ADULT to behave.
Originally Posted by ccw9mm
I completely agree.
August 17th, 2008 10:04 AM
I carry wherever I go to socialize.
Bar, club, whatever.
It is legal here, so I do it.
I rarely drink...........
August 17th, 2008 11:07 AM
Tennessee CCW Laws
I blame Jimmy Naifeh also...
I live across the border in Kentucky but most of our shopping, eating, nights out, etc. are all in the great state of Tennessee. According to Tn law, I can not go into an Applebee's or any similar restaurant while carrying because they serve liquor by the drink to be consumed on the premises.
Thanks, Jimmy, for causing me to strip my pistol in the car and feel naked during the meal with my family.....
As far as drinking while CCW.....I only drink 1 alcoholic beverage per meal so I have no problem with it.
Walk softly and carry a big stick....but I find it hard to conceal a stick.
August 17th, 2008 11:58 AM
One should not carry while they are impaired, but one can consume alcohol without becoming impaired.
I will have a serving of alcohol with dinner while carrying with no worries of legal ramifications or concerns with being impaired.
Remember... Zero tolerance "rules" are created for the weak minded, whom are mentally strained when asked to insert thought into a situation.
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