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The Letter of the Law

3K views 31 replies 22 participants last post by  FN1910 
#1 ·
I went to get some paint matched at the paint store yesterday and on leaving I noticed a "No Concealable Weapons Allowed" posting. I thought it odd that I didn't see it on my way in.

Anyway when I went back today I scrutinized this sign a little more carefully and it does not fit the letter of the law. The writing is not located properly on the sign (as prescribed by law) nor is it clearly visible from the outside (as prescribed by law).

I don't know if this was done intentionally as to only satisfy "corporate" policy or if it was an honest mistake. What it means in SC is that if they found me carrying I would only be asked to leave rather than automatically guilty of trespassing for disobeying the posting.

Bottom line, know the law.
 
#2 ·
Good observation. It is probably an easy way to comply with corporate policy, also they can now ask someone to leave if they notice they are carrying and if not charge them with trespassing.

I have heard of many places using signs like this, although I nave yet to see one myself.
 
#3 ·
I wouldn't say that it was intentional. There are a lot of misinformed people out there when it comes to firearms. It could very well be that the manager told his workers to put a sign up and they did so without consulting the regulations.
 
#4 ·
DON'T point it out to them!
 
#6 ·
Bottom line, know the law.
Very true. I've found in a lot of cases that those of us who are aware, and utilize the laws the way they were intended, and not actively searching for loopholes...may actually know more about the technical reading of the law and the actual wording of the law and intent, than those who would generalize, and use, abuse, and enforce the laws. That's just my experience. I know more obscure traffic laws in my state than most LEO's. I also think I know why they don't enforce them as well.
 
#7 ·
Being a SC LEO and CWP Instructor, I can tell you that you cannot be charged for violating the carry prohibition in the CWP law if the business did not post the sign properly or if the sign did not meet the letter of the law. The store representatives can only ask you to leave.

This situation is similar to the SC DUI law that requires the vehicle to be "in motion" as one of the many elements of a DUI case. If an officer finds someone passed out at the wheel with their foot on the brake and the vehicle is not moving the driver may only be charged with Public Drunkenness since the situation did not meet EVERY element of the law.

As a previous post stated, DON'T TELL THEM! They may change it.
 
#10 ·
Being a SC LEO and CWP Instructor, I can tell you that you cannot be charged for violating the carry prohibition in the CWP law if the business did not post the sign properly or if the sign did not meet the letter of the law. The store representatives can only ask you to leave.

As a previous post stated, DON'T TELL THEM! They may change it.
I noticed a very nice sign on a building a few weeks ago that said no concealed weapons but did not come close to meeting the requirements. I may have carried in there just for spite except that it was a medical office building and didn't need the signs to start with. :hand1: If the sign doesn't fit, you must acquit.

Go ahead and carry if you want to and they say something then point out the improper sign. You have not broken any law.
 
#11 ·
I noticed a mall sign here in the Richmond area that prohibits the carrying of weapons. Not sure why but I happened to glance up and saw the mall rules sign, posted above a interior door, at a height of about 9 feet. If they don't want to post signage in the proper manner, or in a conspicuous location I see no reason to obey it.
 
#16 ·
A thousand words = a picture:

SC Law

SECTION 23-31-235. Sign requirements.

(A) Notwithstanding any other provision of this article, any requirement of or allowance for the posting of signs prohibiting the carrying of a concealable weapon upon any premises shall only be satisfied by a sign expressing the prohibition in both written language interdict and universal sign language.

(B) All signs must be posted at each entrance into a building where a concealable weapon permit holder is prohibited from carrying a concealable weapon and must be:

(1) clearly visible from outside the building;

(2) eight inches wide by twelve inches tall in size;

(3) contain the words "NO CONCEALABLE WEAPONS ALLOWED" in black one-inch tall uppercase type at the bottom of the sign and centered between the lateral edges of the sign;

(4) contain a black silhouette of a handgun inside a circle seven inches in diameter with a diagonal line that runs from the lower left to the upper right at a forty-five degree angle from the horizontal;

(5) a diameter of a circle; and

(6) placed not less than forty inches and not more than sixty inches from the bottom of the building's entrance door.

(C) If the premises where concealable weapons are prohibited does not have doors, then the signs contained in subsection (A) must be:

(1) thirty-six inches wide by forty-eight inches tall in size;

(2) contain the words "NO CONCEALABLE WEAPONS ALLOWED" in black three- inch tall uppercase type at the bottom of the sign and centered between the lateral edges of the sign;

(3) contain a black silhouette of a handgun inside a circle thirty-four inches in diameter with a diagonal line that is two inches wide and runs from the lower left to the upper right at a forty-five degree angle from the horizontal and must be a diameter of a circle whose circumference is two inches wide;

(4) placed not less than forty inches and not more than ninety-six inches above the ground;

(5) posted in sufficient quantities to be clearly visible from any point of entry onto the premises.
 
#17 ·
This is something I like about SC law. It spells out exactly what the signs have to be so there is no confusion or BS, either it is legal or it is not. If a business goes to all the trouble of putting up a legal sign then I know they mean business and honor it completely. Otherwise it is just a request and I may or may not.
 
#21 ·
Ran into a similar thing a year or so back at the gun show. The line of people in front had the door propped open so the Sign was not visible to me. And I noticed it after I was leaving! Not sure that sign was in a proper place, plus it was faded and smaller than the legal size. Next time I went I disarmed ahead of time, noticed signs on both doors, new and fresh and larger. They must have had someone point it out. Not me!
 
#23 ·
Many of these signs are part of a start up kit for stores. I have seen them at the Coastal Grand Mall, movie theaters, and even Toys R Us. In SC they mean nothing. In 4 years living in Myrtle Beach I have seen 1 valid sign. It was at the House of pancakes on Bus17.

When I first started carrying I used to have a copy of the sign requirements with me just in case. Not any longer.
 
#24 ·
I would go in and place a $5,000 order and after the guy finished writing up the sale, I would then 'notice' the sign and tell him about taking your $$$ to a gun friendlier business.
OMO...I wonder what would happen to the sign?
 
#27 ·
8"X12", 7" circle........... most around here do not qualify. There aren't many.


SECTION 23-31-235. Sign requirements.

(A) Notwithstanding any other provision of this article, any requirement of or allowance for the posting of signs prohibiting the carrying of a concealable weapon upon any premises shall only be satisfied by a sign expressing the prohibition in both written language interdict and universal sign language.

(B) All signs must be posted at each entrance into a building where a concealable weapon permit holder is prohibited from carrying a concealable weapon and must be:

(1) clearly visible from outside the building;

(2) eight inches wide by twelve inches tall in size;

(3) contain the words “NO CONCEALABLE WEAPONS ALLOWED” in black one inch tall uppercase type at the bottom of the sign and centered between the lateral edges of the sign;

(4) contain a black silhouette of a handgun inside a circle seven inches in diameter with a diagonal line that runs from the lower left to the upper right at a forty five degree angle from the horizontal;

(5) a diameter of a circle; and

(6) placed not less than forty inches and not more than sixty inches from the bottom of the building’s entrance door.

(C) If the premises where concealable weapons are prohibited does not have doors, then the signs contained in subsection (A) must be:

(1) thirty six inches wide by forty eight inches tall in size;

(2) contain the words “NO CONCEALABLE WEAPONS ALLOWED” in black three inch tall uppercase type at the bottom of the sign and centered between the lateral edges of the sign;

(3) contain a black silhouette of a handgun inside a circle thirty four inches in diameter with a diagonal line that is two inches wide and runs from the lower left to the upper right at a forty five degree angle from the horizontal and must be a diameter of a circle whose circumference is two inches wide;

(4) placed not less than forty inches and not more than ninety six inches above the ground;

(5) posted in sufficient quantities to be clearly visible from any point of entry onto the premises.
 
#31 ·
I haven't seen any signs on local banks.

Although the do have the

No sunglasses
No hats
No hoods
 
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