The Letter of the Law

This is a discussion on The Letter of the Law within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I went to get some paint matched at the paint store yesterday and on leaving I noticed a "No Concealable Weapons Allowed" posting. I thought ...

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Thread: The Letter of the Law

  1. #1
    Member Array Swamp Fox's Avatar
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    The Letter of the Law

    I went to get some paint matched at the paint store yesterday and on leaving I noticed a "No Concealable Weapons Allowed" posting. I thought it odd that I didn't see it on my way in.

    Anyway when I went back today I scrutinized this sign a little more carefully and it does not fit the letter of the law. The writing is not located properly on the sign (as prescribed by law) nor is it clearly visible from the outside (as prescribed by law).

    I don't know if this was done intentionally as to only satisfy "corporate" policy or if it was an honest mistake. What it means in SC is that if they found me carrying I would only be asked to leave rather than automatically guilty of trespassing for disobeying the posting.

    Bottom line, know the law.

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    VIP Member Array Paco's Avatar
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    Good observation. It is probably an easy way to comply with corporate policy, also they can now ask someone to leave if they notice they are carrying and if not charge them with trespassing.

    I have heard of many places using signs like this, although I nave yet to see one myself.
    "Don't hit a man if you can possibly avoid it; but if you do hit him, put him to sleep." - Theodore Roosevelt

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    Member Array calmp9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swamp Fox View Post
    I went to get some paint matched at the paint store yesterday and on leaving I noticed a "No Concealable Weapons Allowed" posting. I thought it odd that I didn't see it on my way in.

    Anyway when I went back today I scrutinized this sign a little more carefully and it does not fit the letter of the law. The writing is not located properly on the sign (as prescribed by law) nor is it clearly visible from the outside (as prescribed by law).

    I don't know if this was done intentionally as to only satisfy "corporate" policy or if it was an honest mistake. What it means in SC is that if they found me carrying I would only be asked to leave rather than automatically guilty of trespassing for disobeying the posting.

    Bottom line, know the law.
    I wouldn't say that it was intentional. There are a lot of misinformed people out there when it comes to firearms. It could very well be that the manager told his workers to put a sign up and they did so without consulting the regulations.
    "[A]rms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. . . Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them."

    - Thomas Paine, Thoughts On Defensive War, 1775

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    DON'T point it out to them!
    Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.-Seneca

    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. If I have a gun, what do I have to be paranoid about?" -Clint Smith

    "An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Jeff Cooper

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    Distinguished Member Array Anubis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swamp Fox View Post
    I noticed a "No Concealable Weapons Allowed" posting.
    Probably the management is indicating carrying a rifle or shotgun is OK.

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    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swamp Fox View Post
    Bottom line, know the law.
    Very true. I've found in a lot of cases that those of us who are aware, and utilize the laws the way they were intended, and not actively searching for loopholes...may actually know more about the technical reading of the law and the actual wording of the law and intent, than those who would generalize, and use, abuse, and enforce the laws. That's just my experience. I know more obscure traffic laws in my state than most LEO's. I also think I know why they don't enforce them as well.

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    Member Array yourbestdefense's Avatar
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    Being a SC LEO and CWP Instructor, I can tell you that you cannot be charged for violating the carry prohibition in the CWP law if the business did not post the sign properly or if the sign did not meet the letter of the law. The store representatives can only ask you to leave.

    This situation is similar to the SC DUI law that requires the vehicle to be "in motion" as one of the many elements of a DUI case. If an officer finds someone passed out at the wheel with their foot on the brake and the vehicle is not moving the driver may only be charged with Public Drunkenness since the situation did not meet EVERY element of the law.

    As a previous post stated, DON'T TELL THEM! They may change it.

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    Senior Member Array luvmyglock's Avatar
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    I would carry my AR-15 in there, and see what they say about the "concealability" of it.
    EVIL PREVAILS WHEN GOOD MEN FAIL TO ACT.

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    Member Array Wilhelm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swamp Fox View Post
    . . . on leaving I noticed a "No Concealable Weapons Allowed" posting.
    They probably don't want anyone standing around outside the shop with concealable weapons. Hope they match paint better than they proof signs.

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    Ex Member Array FN1910's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yourbestdefense View Post
    Being a SC LEO and CWP Instructor, I can tell you that you cannot be charged for violating the carry prohibition in the CWP law if the business did not post the sign properly or if the sign did not meet the letter of the law. The store representatives can only ask you to leave.

    As a previous post stated, DON'T TELL THEM! They may change it.
    I noticed a very nice sign on a building a few weeks ago that said no concealed weapons but did not come close to meeting the requirements. I may have carried in there just for spite except that it was a medical office building and didn't need the signs to start with. If the sign doesn't fit, you must acquit.

    Go ahead and carry if you want to and they say something then point out the improper sign. You have not broken any law.

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    I noticed a mall sign here in the Richmond area that prohibits the carrying of weapons. Not sure why but I happened to glance up and saw the mall rules sign, posted above a interior door, at a height of about 9 feet. If they don't want to post signage in the proper manner, or in a conspicuous location I see no reason to obey it.
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    Member Array Swamp Fox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yourbestdefense View Post

    As a previous post stated, DON'T TELL THEM! They may change it.

    Seeing as though I have a large painting project going on and I don't plan on disarming on each trip, it ain't exactly on my to do list.

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    Member Array gotammo's Avatar
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    Letter of the law or not I believe in the intent and the property owner has the right as far as I concern to control their property as they see fit. No means no, would not carry there whether you want to shop there anymore is up to you.

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    Member Array Swamp Fox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gotammo View Post
    Letter of the law or not I believe in the intent and the property owner has the right as far as I concern to control their property as they see fit. No means no, would not carry there whether you want to shop there anymore is up to you.
    I understand your point, however SC Law is VERY specific on this issue, on purpose.

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    Member Array Shrugs's Avatar
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    anyone got a pic of the what the Letter of the Law is suppose to look like ?

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