LEO Encounter - Got a ticket this morning

[tns0038]

Two points, FWIW.

1) I agree with the others, never touch a weapon in a situation like that. Nuff said......

2) I'm a little concerned that you're carrying in your purse, in the car. It seems to me like you could inadvertently get out of the car with your purse forgetting that the gun was there. Without your ccw, you'd then be in a world of trouble. I'd consider finding another spot to carry the weapon while in the car.

Just my .02.

Thanks for the post.

I agree.

Why do you keep it in your purse?

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[cphilip]

Yes, in SC you would probably have been guilty of Unlawful Carry to not have a permit and have that gun concealed in your purse. You could have had it in the glove box, console or behind rear most seat, completely loaded and unlocked. But not in the purse.... unless you had a Concealed Weapons Permit. Not sure what your state says but here that would be like having it under the seat. It is a technicality of ours.

[gilraen]

Why do you keep it in your purse?

Well, I do move it from my purse to the well below the arm rest. I just forgot this morning.

As for the larger question, two reasons, mainly. I am apple shaped, so I don't wear a belt. I can't use IWB, OWB, or any other belt style, and as we all know, a gun won't stay still in elastic waist pants. About my only option is a SmartCarry, which I bought.

But the belt is terribly scratchy, and since I live in a warm slice of heck, I don't want to double my clothing layers with a t-shirt. So I need to sew something to protect my skin from the SmartCarry strap. I haven't done that yet, and I can't really wear the SmartCarry much yet, since I don't have my CHL. So the alternative is the purse. It's temporary (hopefully); a stop-gap measure.

I did see a small purse, online, that would hold my P239, and I could shoot through it if I needed to. That would save the time and effort to unzip, draw, aim, and pull the trigger that a regular purse/carry would have, to my detriment.

I may try that out.

[dukalmighty]

Like I posted earlier you can legally conceal a handgun on you directly from home or business to your car,so you can be armed during those times outside your home when you might need it but until you get the CHL no carrying into shopping centers etc.And I am from South Texas so I know how hot it gets and how few clothes we wear,there are many options and I know of some people who carry IWB in elastic band pants by wearing a belt under the pants that holds the holster

[havegunjoe]

+1 on keep you hands off of the gun. I don't know how it works on motorcycles but if he had been in a car he would have been videoing you the entire time he was occupied. If he had reviewed the video and seen you moving something he may have pulled you over again on probable cause or reasonable suspicion. If you are not doing anything illegal you should have nothing to worry about. Do what is required by law and nothing else and I say that includes telling him about the gun if that is legal in your state. It is in mine. Unless you have to exit the car, retrieve your license, or go sit in his car where he may see or need to be told about the gun why tell him? It is not germane to why you were stopped.

[kikka]

I have a VA CC permit, and Bersa .380
I have a question on in-car carry in SC. I know SC does not (presently) honor VA CC permit.

In a Prius (or other vehicle for that matter where there is NO LOCK for glove box), is carry, loaded in the glove box legal? or does it have to be locked in the box?

It seems strange that you can't conceal on you, but can loaded in an unlocked glove box or console.

Don't want to get in LEO trouble if stopped in SC.
Thanks,
-kikka

[gilraen]

+1 on keep you hands off of the gun. I don't know how it works on motorcycles but if he had been in a car he would have been videoing you the entire time he was occupied.

Oh, holy crap.

[KenInColo]

A long time ago I heard a rumor that an estimated 1/3 of the women in the Houston area carried, with or without a license. The rumor also said that most of the cops knew this, thought it was a good idea that women carried and didn't try to enforce gun laws with these women. I thought that was fantastic.

[Bonesnofoa]

Since getting my CHL i don't speed at all.

[gilraen]

A long time ago I heard a rumor that an estimated 1/3 of the women in the Houston area carried, with or without a license. The rumor also said that most of the cops knew this, thought it was a good idea that women carried and didn't try to enforce gun laws with these women. I thought that was fantastic.

It sure sounds great, but I wouldn't want to trust to it.

[calmp9]

Background: I don’t have my CHL yet, but I legally carry in my car. It’s been a decade or more since I got a ticket.

Got one this morning by motorcycle cop for running a stop sign.

<Italics are my grumpy, sarcastic, early morning THOUGHTS, not spoken, with a bit of artistic license thrown in.>

Having learned some things at this site, I rolled down my windows before he approached. I dug for my insurance card before he got up to me.

Me: <*Bleep* My gun! It’s still in my purse. Now what do I do? It's not visible. Just be calm.>

LEO: “What’s the emergency that you couldn’t stop at the stop sign?”
Me: <Oh, nice cliche. NOT.>
Me: “No emergency.” (Getting my license from my billfold.)

LEO: I need your license and insurance.
Me: (handed them to him.)
LEO took them back to his motorcycle.

Me: <What do I do with the gun? Leave it there? Move it to where I hide it? Is he going to know I’ve applied for a CHL? What will I do if he says something? I don’t dare lie, and I don’t need to. I’m legal. But what if he has an attitude? I *really* don’t want to deal with attitude about my gun this morning. D***. I’ll have to be even more careful driving.>

I made sure he was still at his motorcycle, moved my purse nearer me, and without looking down, took the gun out and put it under my arm rest, in the well that’s there. <Be careful. Act naturally. Nothing’s wrong, Officer. There is no gun here. “Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!” There. It’s done.>

LEO comes back with the metal ticket holder/writer thingy.
LEO: "Name, Rank, Serial Number?" (Just kidding.) Asked me the usual stuff, but also asked me my work address, phone number, and job title.
Me: "I’m curious why that’s asked for."
LEO: (Tilting the ticket holder thingy towards me) "Because it’s on here."
Me: <Oh, thank you very much for that wonderfully accurate but totally uninformative answer. Stupid of me to bother to ask.>

LEO: "Appear at court such and such at (address) on (date). Have a good day."
Me: (silence.)

He didn’t say or do anything bad. I didn’t say or do anything bad except run a stop sign and not be overly polite. (Kinda hard to do during morning exhaustion.) I am VERY glad he didn’t know to ask about weapons, and I am NOT looking forward to having to deal with that when my CHL comes in. I’m not a confrontational person, and I don’t deal well with conflict. I can only hope I don’t run into “one of those.” I will definitely hand over my CHL with my driver’s license, but I will probably wait for him to say “Are you armed now?” before I mention it. And then, of course, honesty is the best policy.

Comments welcome, and thanks for all I've learned here.

Does Virginia law require you to inform a law enforcement officer that you have a loaded firearm in your vehicle? If it does, you did a bad thing.

Moving the firearm without informing him was bad too. If he saw you, he would have interpreted that as a hostile act and he would have drawn on you. For your safety, don't move a firearm or make suspicious moves like that when stopped. It could get you killed.

I know that you didn't want to deal with the situation, but you could have handled this one better. It's good that nothing bad happened.

Be safe!

[Hawker]

But I also know that if I had to use it, pre-CHL, I'd end up before a jury. It's not an easy decision to make.

If you use it (the gun, that is)..... You'll likely end up in front a jury with a CHL as well. Civil case... or criminal, depending on the case. Sorry, but we are talking serious business here. Don't get caught up in the keyboard commando hype that goes on in internet forums. Check out the law... know what you can and can't do... and be responsible.

[cphilip]

I have a VA CC permit, and Bersa .380
I have a question on in-car carry in SC. I know SC does not (presently) honor VA CC permit.

In a Prius (or other vehicle for that matter where there is NO LOCK for glove box), is carry, loaded in the glove box legal? or does it have to be locked in the box?

It seems strange that you can't conceal on you, but can loaded in an unlocked glove box or console.

Don't want to get in LEO trouble if stopped in SC.
Thanks,
-kikka

Yes.... there is no lock requirement on the glovebox, console or behind rear most seat nor in the trunk (with some regard).

And it can be loaded as well.

That is the requirement allowed to anyone, be they resident, CWP or someone just passing through SC.

Note the following are "exceptions" to "Unlawful Carry" (so they are legal carry) also note that a container in the trunk may need an "integral fastener" (whatever that means).... but Closed means just Closed, not locked.

SECTION 16-23-20. Unlawful carrying of handgun; exceptions.

(9) a person in a vehicle if the handgun is secured in a closed glove compartment, closed console, closed trunk, or in a closed container secured by an integral fastener and transported in the luggage compartment of the vehicle; however, this item is not violated if the glove compartment, console, or trunk is opened in the presence of a law enforcement officer for the sole purpose of retrieving a driver’s license, registration, or proof of insurance;


reference: http://www.sled.sc.gov/SCStateGunLaw...x?MenuID=CWP#1

[dukalmighty]

Note the following are "exceptions" to "Unlawful Carry" (so they are legal carry) also note that a container in the trunk may need an "integral fastener" (whatever that means).... but Closed means just Closed, not locked.

I assume that would mean the case needs to be locked also

[cphilip]

locked also? Not sure why your are saying that in your follow up question...

They don't require the Console or Glove box nor trunk to be locked. Just closed.

But I assume they expect that if the gun is laying there in a case in the trunk, that the case must be fastened closed into its case in some sort of manner. Not sure they expect that to be a lock. I think "integral fastener" implies the case/containers latch or fasteners are properly latched. Integral implies its a part of the case/container itself.

Since they do not require the others to be locked I can hardly think they would require the case/container to be locked. Since they do not use the word locked in any place and specifically use "integral fastener" I will have to say they mean latched, not locked.

Don't ask me why this mattered to them so much as to go to so much trouble to say "Integral Fastener" because I don't know. Seems silly doesn't it?