LEO Encounter - Got a ticket this morning

LEO Encounter - Got a ticket this morning

This is a discussion on LEO Encounter - Got a ticket this morning within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Background: I donít have my CHL yet, but I legally carry in my car. Itís been a decade or more since I got a ticket. ...

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Thread: LEO Encounter - Got a ticket this morning

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array gilraen's Avatar
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    LEO Encounter - Got a ticket this morning

    Background: I donít have my CHL yet, but I legally carry in my car. Itís been a decade or more since I got a ticket.

    Got one this morning by motorcycle cop for running a stop sign.

    <Italics are my grumpy, sarcastic, early morning THOUGHTS, not spoken, with a bit of artistic license thrown in.>

    Having learned some things at this site, I rolled down my windows before he approached. I dug for my insurance card before he got up to me.

    Me: <*Bleep* My gun! Itís still in my purse. Now what do I do? It's not visible. Just be calm.>

    LEO: ďWhatís the emergency that you couldnít stop at the stop sign?Ē
    Me: <Oh, nice cliche. NOT.>
    Me: ďNo emergency.Ē (Getting my license from my billfold.)

    LEO: I need your license and insurance.
    Me: (handed them to him.)
    LEO took them back to his motorcycle.

    Me: <What do I do with the gun? Leave it there? Move it to where I hide it? Is he going to know Iíve applied for a CHL? What will I do if he says something? I donít dare lie, and I donít need to. Iím legal. But what if he has an attitude? I *really* donít want to deal with attitude about my gun this morning. D***. Iíll have to be even more careful driving.>

    I made sure he was still at his motorcycle, moved my purse nearer me, and without looking down, took the gun out and put it under my arm rest, in the well thatís there. <Be careful. Act naturally. Nothingís wrong, Officer. There is no gun here. ďPay no attention to the man behind the curtain!Ē There. Itís done.>

    LEO comes back with the metal ticket holder/writer thingy.
    LEO: "Name, Rank, Serial Number?" (Just kidding.) Asked me the usual stuff, but also asked me my work address, phone number, and job title.
    Me: "Iím curious why thatís asked for."
    LEO: (Tilting the ticket holder thingy towards me) "Because itís on here."
    Me: <Oh, thank you very much for that wonderfully accurate but totally uninformative answer. Stupid of me to bother to ask.>

    LEO: "Appear at court such and such at (address) on (date). Have a good day."
    Me: (silence.)

    He didnít say or do anything bad. I didnít say or do anything bad except run a stop sign and not be overly polite. (Kinda hard to do during morning exhaustion.) I am VERY glad he didnít know to ask about weapons, and I am NOT looking forward to having to deal with that when my CHL comes in. Iím not a confrontational person, and I donít deal well with conflict. I can only hope I donít run into ďone of those.Ē I will definitely hand over my CHL with my driverís license, but I will probably wait for him to say ďAre you armed now?Ē before I mention it. And then, of course, honesty is the best policy.

    Comments welcome, and thanks for all I've learned here.
    "I pledge allegiance to the war banner of the united states of Totalitaria. And to the Republic, which no longer stands, several bankers, who are now god, indivisible, with Bernanke bucks and credit for all."


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gilraen View Post
    He didnít say or do anything bad. I didnít say or do anything bad except run a stop sign and not be overly polite. (Kinda hard to do during morning exhaustion.) I am VERY glad he didnít know to ask about weapons, and I am NOT looking forward to having to deal with that when my CHL comes in. Iím not a confrontational person, and I donít deal well with conflict. I can only hope I donít run into ďone of those.Ē
    Night shifter? BTDT. Either way, however, DON'T RUN "STOPS." I've pulled into my drive without remebering how I got there, so I do indeed understand.

    Equally, if you are currently carrying in accordance with State law, DO NOT touch your weapon after a stop has been initiated. That could be one hell of a "misunderstanding," especially if you were tired enough that it didn't "click" immediately as to why the officer might be shouting at you, if he observed the motion.

  3. #3
    VIP Member Array Kerbouchard's Avatar
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    I would also agree that you shouldn't have moved or handled the weapon while the stop was in progress. As far as being nervous about the gun, why? It's completely legal to carry and you have no duty to inform since you do not have your license yet.

    The only other thing I would add is that from your description it sounds like you needed to move the gun so it would not be in plain sight? Which would mean that it was not properly concealed in the first place...which would make it illegal.

    You can carry a handgun in your vehicle without a license, but it has to be concealed. Sounds like you may have gotten lucky with just a ticket.
    There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other is wrong, but the middle is always evil.

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  4. #4
    Member Array MandM's Avatar
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    You did OK. I will add. I have several friends who are LEO. One told me once that it makes him uneasy when he sees people shifting around while he's back at his vehicle running a license check.

    He had an incident once when he had taken a guys license and insurance back to his patrol car. He was running the check and saw the guy shifting around a lot. When he approached the car again he spotted the gun the guy had slipped beneath the armrest to his right.

    Long story short. They guy had no business having the gun. He was a felon and my friend got him out of the car and cuffed without incident.

    For me, if I get stopped I'm going to wait with my hands on my stearing wheel. Wait for the LEO to approach the car. Great him and tell him that I have a CC License and ask how he would like to proceed for me to get my license and insurance.

    In Kansas you don't have to tell them you have a CC license unless you're asked. But I plan on letting them know up front so there's no confusion in case they see my gun.
    You can't fix stupid. Ron White

  5. #5
    Member Array IfIhaveto's Avatar
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    Great Post everyone Thanks for information from both sides..

  6. #6
    VIP Member Array David in FL's Avatar
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    Two points, FWIW.

    1) I agree with the others, never touch a weapon in a situation like that. Nuff said......

    2) I'm a little concerned that you're carrying in your purse, in the car. It seems to me like you could inadvertently get out of the car with your purse forgetting that the gun was there. Without your ccw, you'd then be in a world of trouble. I'd consider finding another spot to carry the weapon while in the car.

    Just my .02.

    Thanks for the post.
    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in a grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."

    Theodore Roosevelt

  7. #7
    Senior Member Array Ragin Cajun's Avatar
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    Do you have to notify the LEO in Texas that you have a gun? If not, I think your best bet in that situation was not saying a word unless you do it up front.

    I think moving the gun, reaching around was a very bad idea once you got stopped. If he had saw you, your stop wouldn't have went so well. You may have gotten drawn on, your car searched, or who knows what else. They usually take that moving around as your trying to hide something, which you were. No matter where a gun is in your vehicle, don't touch it during a traffic stop. That is a good way to make a okay situtation into a really bad one. Good luck with your CHL.

  8. #8
    VIP Member Array nedrgr21's Avatar
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    I know a few cops and they don't want to hear about legally carried guns - they don't ask cause they don't want to know (in MO, no requirement to inform unless asked). A criminal isn't going to tell anyway, they'll just pull it out.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Array AirForceShooter's Avatar
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    Work numbers and addy?
    What's with that?
    "Officer I don't work."

    I've found with my CCW I usually wind up with a warning and not the ticket.

    AFS
    Gun control is hitting what you aim at

  10. #10
    VIP Member Array Kerbouchard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AirForceShooter View Post
    Work numbers and addy?
    What's with that?
    "Officer I don't work."

    AFS
    You thought the ticket was to help enforce the law? Nope, its revenue enhancement, which is why they ask for work number, postition, workplace, etc.

    Half of our LEO have become state sanctioned collection agencies.
    There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other is wrong, but the middle is always evil.

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    Who is John Galt?

  11. #11
    Member Array p230's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gilraen View Post
    He didnít say or do anything bad. I didnít say or do anything bad except run a stop sign and not be overly polite. (Kinda hard to do during morning exhaustion.) I am VERY glad he didnít know to ask about weapons, and I am NOT looking forward to having to deal with that when my CHL comes in. Iím not a confrontational person, and I donít deal well with conflict. I can only hope I donít run into ďone of those.Ē I will definitely hand over my CHL with my driverís license, but I will probably wait for him to say ďAre you armed now?Ē before I mention it. And then, of course, honesty is the best policy.

    Comments welcome, and thanks for all I've learned here.
    Remember in Texas you must give the officer the CHL whether they ask for it or not. The one time I have been stopped for an infraction was by a DPS trooper and he ask what I had and where it was but did not disarm me. The other time was when I was on my way to a range and a triathalon was going on the same day and DPS slowing people down and letting drivers know about it. The trooper glances at my rifles cases in the bed of the pickup and asked "Headed to the range"..."Yes"...."What you shooting today"..."Service rifle match with my Garand"..."Nice, have fun and be careful." In my town motercycle police never give warning but they don't hassel CHL holders as far as I know. The DPS trooper gave me a warning, I was lucky I was running 80 in a 70.

    Stay Safe.

  12. #12
    Member Array Conan's Avatar
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    In NC we are told to annouce to the LEO that I have a ccw and I am armed or un-armed whatever the case. Also in NC the CCW info comes up when they run your license plate so it is best to tell them even if un-armed, in fact I was told in my ccw class that it was a crime not to make that announcement when first approached by the LEO.
    I carry a gun because cops are too heavy!
    Take my advice, Don't take my advice!

  13. #13
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    Number #1 a concealed handgun in a purse in a vehicle in Texas is legal without a CHL,you can conceal a weapon on you from your home to your car on private property, such as going to your car in the parking lot from your business or home, but it better be a direct route without a chl.But once in the car it must be concealed in the vehicle , the purse being left on the seat since it is not concealed on your person would be legal.If he had seen you fiddling with your gun you might have had a really bad day,leave it in your purse on the seat or floor and don't run stop signs or speed and you will be fine
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
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  14. #14
    Senior Member Array gilraen's Avatar
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    Well, the consensus seems clear. DON'T TOUCH the gun during the encounter. Sit still. [grin] I understand now that I could have made the SHTF. Thank you; lesson learned.

    Answers to questions and comments:

    As far as being nervous about the gun, why? It's completely legal to carry and you have no duty to inform since you do not have your license yet.
    Mostly because I'm new to gun ownership. Plus I was always one of those meek, quiet, biddable girls who never wanted to get in trouble. Although I've developed a strong anti-authoritarian streak in adulthood, my "don't get into trouble" fears still take precedence.

    The only other thing I would add is that from your description it sounds like you needed to move the gun so it would not be in plain sight? Which would mean that it was not properly concealed in the first place...which would make it illegal.
    Understood, but it was hidden in my purse. If it were visible, almost certainly the LEO would have seen it. (Ouch.) For some reason, in my anxiety, I thought that it would be -- um.... more legal, or... safer, or some such silly thought, being hidden under the arm rest instead of in my purse. In hindsight, of course, I can see that this was just fear of getting in trouble.

    One told me once that it makes him uneasy when he sees people shifting around while he's back at his vehicle running a license check.
    Very good point. I will have to remember this. I didn't do much shifting, and the motion was only one slow motion "grab and stuff." But I hear your point.

    I'm a little concerned that you're carrying in your purse, in the car. It seems to me like you could inadvertently get out of the car with your purse forgetting that the gun was there. Without your ccw, you'd then be in a world of trouble. I'd consider finding another spot to carry the weapon while in the car.
    Well, it's in my purse from the apartment to the car, and I was sleepy enough that I hadn't transferred it to its hiding place under the arm rest. (I was less than a block from home.) BUT -- yes, once recently I did forget, and carried it into work with me. I locked it in a drawer before my boss came in, and unlocked it and stuck it back in my purse before going home. So you're very much correct.

    I've heard of people carrying for years before concealed carry became legal. I'm sort of in two minds about it. I won't get my CHL until October at the earliest, and -- being much more aware now, and not in a good neighborhood, I don't like going out (outside my car) without it. But I also know that if I had to use it, pre-CHL, I'd end up before a jury. It's not an easy decision to make.
    "I pledge allegiance to the war banner of the united states of Totalitaria. And to the Republic, which no longer stands, several bankers, who are now god, indivisible, with Bernanke bucks and credit for all."

  15. #15
    Member Array Wilhelm's Avatar
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    Reminds me of something a cop told me awhile back:

    A cop pulls over a motorist for rolling a stop sign (sometimes known as a "California stop", i.e., just slowing down, looking both ways and then proceeding without actually coming to a stop). Anyways, so the cop asks, "You know why I pulled you over?" The motorist replies, "Because I didn't come to a complete stop at the stop sign? I slowed down-- what's the difference?" The cop asks the motorist to step out of the car and proceeds to beating him with his nightstick. After awhile the cop, continuing to beat the motorist, asks "So tell me, what would you like me to do, slow down or stop?"

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