The ''space'' factor

This is a discussion on The ''space'' factor within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Several things bring this home to me - the need for space in suspicious circumstances. QK mentioned how gang bangers might ''palm'' a NAA mini ...

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Thread: The ''space'' factor

  1. #1
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    The ''space'' factor

    Several things bring this home to me - the need for space in suspicious circumstances.

    QK mentioned how gang bangers might ''palm'' a NAA mini - get in close and pop one to cranium. Then my thread on two or three guys seeming threatening, and - might they be armed or not.

    Bottom line more I consider it is - a need (major need) to keep distance and space - all aided of course by staying in yellow and at least seeing things develop - and if no chance to get out of Dodge then, at least somehow maintain some space.

    Not easy probably but - if you guys think on this - imagine someone (or people) advancing in your direction, intentions unknown - any good ways to keep your space? OK some are obvious but fishing here for other's thoughts.

    I would hope we are not backed into a corner - so we'll assume the ubiquitous parking lot - with a large area - then, do we walk backwards, and verbalize our wish to remain at a distance? Plus, just how close do we feel is comfortable before we go quickly from orange to red?

    To reiterate - I like/want/need space in any threat situation. I want to see what is going on clearly plus, I'd like to have more time to act, in particular of course if an assailant might have a blade - ya know, Tueller and all that.

    So - in my rambling (usual) way - looking for views on your personal space evaluations and maintenance drills.
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

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    20 odd views and no comments! Shame on y'all :hand25:
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

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    VIP Member Array Bud White's Avatar
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    Hum i like my Space for sure .. Hard to keep a lot of distance though and not be singled out yourself .

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    Quote Originally Posted by P95Carry
    Shame on y'all :hand25:
    Hey - wait a minute! I just got here!

    Just off the cuff here, I'd say do not walk backwards. Too easy to trip, and too slow to create distance. The old 'move in a direction ninety degrees from the path of the aggressor(s)' would probably be a good general rule.

    As far as where you draw the line in the sand, that's tough to quantify methinks. I'd be less tolerant of someone closing on me if I couldn't see his/her/their hands.

    There. Are you happy now?

    SSKC

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    OK ~ My ViewPoint

    Great Post Chris...I "knew" it was coming but, I just didn't know exactly when.

    Let me say one thing....People NEED to get over their natural inclination to not want to possibly "Hurt The Feelings" of total strangers.

    Without "patting myself on the back" I consider myself to be an all around nice & friendly, helpful guy. But, I don't let people that I don't like the looks of get close to me these days.

    It was absolutely "Hard Learned Behavior" for me to avoid certain people in general.
    I "size everybody up" these days & I also look for all of the usual and common suspicious indicators & behaviors.

    Hey...if you are standing in front of an elevator door & that door opens and you don't like the looks of who is already in that elevator...then don't get in.
    You don't owe anybody any phony explanations & you don't need to pretend that you "left something" in the office.
    I've even had people (already in an elevator) ask me why I'm not getting in.
    Now...I just say: "Hey...I'll wait for the next one...Do you have a problem with that?"

    Since I walk a LOT at night & sometimes quite late at night...if I see somebody (or a group of people coming my way)....I'll put my hand right on my "pocket piece" & step off the curb to put some necessary space between myself & them.
    I really don't care what they think & I'll probably never see them again anyway.
    If I'm out & somebody starts walking toward me & I don't like the way they look or act...I just come right out & say:
    "I don't know what time it is...I don't have any spare change...I don't have any cigarettes or a "light" ~ whatever it is you want from me...I can't help you...Don't come any closer."

    It sure works for me!
    I honestly don't give a "Hoot & A Hollar In Hell" what people I don't know think about me.

    If I'm out & minding my own business & I see that I'm getting approached by somebody I don't like the looks of then I just say: "I don't know you...I don't want to know you...there's nothing you can say to me that I want to hear right now...Stay Away from me."

    Naturally, I do not apply any of the above to Cute Babes, Mothers pushing baby strollers, Senior Citizens, Little Kids or other obviously non~threatening types of individuals.

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    There. Are you happy now?
    SSKC - ecstatic Thx tho and yeah - backwards maybe not best direction. I wonder tho also when we might be able to verbalize and say something like - ''that is close enough'' etc. Up to a certain point is Ok but - there comes a closeness factor where frankly - pucker could well be imminent!!

    QK - you are on my frequency!! Almost to the Nth degree - my feelings these days. But maybe - beware the cute babes - seriously - it reminds me of a ploy used by one ''team'' I read about, where the ''babe'' was effectively the bait!! Another was the hitch hiker or ''babe in distress'' by vehicle - with BG's hidden away out of sight!!

    Sad to say - and bearing in mind the best con' man is the guy who seems ''so nice'' - these days it is hard to dish out trust to about anyone. I guess even the ''poor old lady'' ploy may have been pulled more than once!

    There is something we might call our comfort zone - inside of which there is a sense of heightened awareness (or should be) - and even when I am walking around a big store, galleria mall etc - I am definitely not comfortable when too close to folks.

    Maybe my lack of anti-perspirant helps keep em away too
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

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    Ex Member Array Phil Elmore's Avatar
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    Link: Maintaining Space and Weapons Transition

    Link: Criticisms and Defenses of Hands-Up Ready Stances

    Maintaining space through getting your hands up, verbalizing a warning (everything from "Hey, man, I have the flu, you don't want to get any closer" to a more aggressive "Do not approach me!"), and preparing to go from hands-up to action is something about which I wrote extensively in my book, Shorthand Empty Hand.

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    Good stuff comin' in - thx
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

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    Phil got it right. Verbalize loudly and perhaps create as much attention as possible. BG's like to keep a low profile. Also consider shuffling backwards or sideways.

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    Member Array dbracin's Avatar
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    P95carry, this thread has motivated me to evaluate my awareness when in public. I don't travel in "high threat places often" and that has me unprepared.
    (yes, public roads can be high threat, but the drive to work and then pick the girls up at the private christian school they attend, well...) But, at the local malls
    I do like to keep my distance from strangers. If their close enough to talk to without shouting when in the parking lot, then thats too close. Now, standing inline waiting to checkout is a different story. I don't like people standing close enough to touch me.

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    VIP Member Array KenpoTex's Avatar
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    SouthNarc over at TPI has a photo sequence on this very issue. Definately worth the read.
    Here's the link to the thread. Starting with page six you'll find the stuff it sounds like you're looking for. http://www.totalprotectioninteractiv...read.php?t=770
    "Being a predator isn't always comfortable but the only other option is to be prey. That is not an acceptable option." ~Phil Messina

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    Something that I have found which seems to "spook" most people is, maintaining eye contact with them.
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Diligentia Vis Celeritas"

    "There is very little new, and the forgotten is constantly being rediscovered."
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    Senior Member Array dpesec's Avatar
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    Chris,
    I try and keep people 20 plus feet away. My GF excluded.
    This isn't always possible, but when people invade this area my radar goes up.
    Dave

    “The highest obligation and privilege of citizenship is that of bearing arms”. General George Patton—US Army

    Vis et Veneratio

    "So this is how democracy dies: to thunderous applause." Actress Natalie Portman as Padme in Star Wars Revenge of the Sith

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    If the person is wanting contact with me, with a firm voice and solid eye contact: "Stand where you are and don't come any closer. Please state your business." That usually works. I did have a guy bum a few bucks off of me for gas, and he was smart enough to politely stand at a good distance. If he's just getting too close, a change in my direction and solid eye contact should get the point across. If he alters course in my direction again, something is definitely suspicious...

    In a crowded area, like standing in line, I hate it when people feel like they have to stand so close they end up brushing against me. Innocently flipping all two feet of my hair in their faces works nicely.
    "Americans have the will to resist because you have weapons. If you don't have a gun, freedom of speech has no power." - Yoshimi Ishikawa

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    Quote Originally Posted by kenpotex
    SouthNarc over at TPI has a photo sequence on this very issue.
    I was able to attend an "In Extremis Knife" training class with SouthNarc in October, and this was a major part of the evening. He recommends a verbal challenge, such as "will you not come any closer" combined with a direct move 90 degrees to the right or left to give your peripheral vision a chance to see movement from behind you if the person approaching is a ruse to distract your attention.

    An honest person should stop and not invade your space further after being asked to back off....if they continue, it is a fair indicator that something is not right.
    "I surrounded 'em"- Alvin York

    "They're ain't many troubles that a man can't fix with seven hundred dollars and a thirty ought six"- Jeff Cooper

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