Church carry in La

This is a discussion on Church carry in La within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Bob The Great Yes, church carry is flat-out against the law, and this is one of my biggest disappointments with LA's gun ...

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Thread: Church carry in La

  1. #16
    Member Array packin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob The Great View Post
    Yes, church carry is flat-out against the law, and this is one of my biggest disappointments with LA's gun laws. I came from TX, where carrying in church is perfectly OK, as long as it's not marked with a 30.06 sign.

    Honestly, it's kept me from being as active in my church as I'd like to be. Sad, but it's true.

    Hopefully, we can get that changed, along with a couple of the other legal idiosynchracies around here.

    I'll second the desire to get church carry removed from the prohibited list and I wish Louisiana would require the businesses to post a designated type of signage like Texas requires with the 30.06 as far as notice.

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  3. #17
    Member Array Charliee's Avatar
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    Welcome to Louisiana. It is my understanding that under the laws of this state, carry in a church or place of worship is prohibited by law unless you are a leo. That being said there is much concern these days over active shooters in churches and I presonally feel better knowing that someone outthere might be carrying in church to protect the members. Just stay well concealed.

  4. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by preachertim View Post
    Next No one owns our church it is autonimous.
    Then the body as a whole (aka the congregation) owns the property. When I pastored Baptist churches the property tax papers (No we did not pay taxes but they still sent the paper work --- Kansas?) the line that would have the owners name was First Baptist church of XXX Inc.; the legal name of the church. So the church is owned by the Body of Trustees or Board of Directors. Tim IM me your denomination I almost would bet something depending on the law of the state of LA.

  5. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gideon View Post
    What does the current constitution say about how decisions are reached?
    This is one of 2 questions that needs to be asked.

    The second question I see that would need to be asked is who does the constitution/ by-laws list as the person in care of the building. Some Churches this might be the church board (like the one I have been called to) others it is the Pastor/ Sr. Pastor and others it is the Congregation.

    Guess you would need to find these things out.
    Mark

    "The world is filled with violence. Because criminals carry guns, we decent law-abiding citizens should also have guns. Otherwise they will win and the decent people will lose."

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  6. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by JerryM View Post
    Although no one individual owns the property, the congregation as a whole does unless a denomination does. For example in nearly all Southern Baptist churches, the SBC owns the property no matter that the congregation paid for it. The same is true of some Presbyterian churches.
    Assuming the local church congregation owns the church, the church or those elected to represent the church would seem to have the authority.
    It will be interesting to learn what the state AG has to say.


    Where did you get the idea that the SBC owned the property of a Southern Baptist Church? I've been a Southern Baptist my entire life (58 years) and none of the churches I've belonged to were owned by anyone but the congregation.
    Last edited by Captain Crunch; August 21st, 2008 at 12:34 AM. Reason: Fixed quote tags.

  7. #21
    Distinguished Member Array JerryM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PHILBEE View Post
    Where did you get the idea that the SBC owned the property of a Southern Baptist Church? I've been a Southern Baptist my entire life (58 years) and none of the churches I've belonged to were owned by anyone but the congregation.

    You might inquire and see what you find out. While I am not sure it applies to all SBC churches that is the norm. Even though the congregation pays for the facilities the SBC owns it. I suspect that it might be done to prevent some others from taking over.

    I know of one SBC local church that called a pastor who happened to be charismatic. In time other charismatic folks joined the church until the true Baptist were in the minority. However, the pastor and others could not take over the church and withdraw from the SBC because the SBC owned the facility and property. The true Baptist members were able to keep the facilities and are building the church again. The majority moved on and established a charismatic church.

    It may have something to do with most churches beginning as a mission from a larger SBC church, and so initially receive financing from the SBC and other churches.

    Just for info check with your pastor and see what he says.
    I am an independent Baptist, but know many SBC folks.

    Regards,
    Jerry
    Last edited by Captain Crunch; August 21st, 2008 at 12:32 AM. Reason: Fixed quote tags.

  8. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by JerryM View Post
    Although no one individual owns the property, the congregation as a whole does unless a denomination does. For example in nearly all Southern Baptist churches, the SBC owns the property no matter that the congregation paid for it. The same is true of some Presbyterian churches.

    Assuming the local church congregation owns the church, the church or those elected to represent the church would seem to have the authority.

    It will be interesting to learn what the state AG has to say.

    Regards,
    Jerry
    Quote Originally Posted by JerryM View Post
    You might inquire and see what you find out. While I am not sure it applies to all SBC churches that is the norm. Even though the congregation pays for the facilities the SBC owns it. I suspect that it might be done to prevent some others from taking over.

    I know of one SBC local church that called a pastor who happened to be charismatic. In time other charismatic folks joined the church until the true Baptist were in the minority. However, the pastor and others could not take over the church and withdraw from the SBC because the SBC owned the facility and property. The true Baptist members were able to keep the facilities and are building the church again. The majority moved on and established a charismatic church.

    It may have something to do with most churches beginning as a mission from a larger SBC church, and so initially receive financing from the SBC and other churches.

    Just for info check with your pastor and see what he says.
    I am an independent Baptist, but know many SBC folks.

    Regards,
    Jerry

    It also depends upon the state. In Kansas due to a court ruling back in the 40's or 50's the State denominational system of the local church owns the building/proeperty. In some cases the that denominational system got the churches to put that the denominational systems owns the property.

  9. #23
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    Jerry that may be true in your state, but I assure you that is not the case here in Texas. The trustees, deacons, pastor, etc controls the church including the property that it sets on. The SBC, SBOT, BGCT here in Texas do not own churchs (as a rule), I dont know of any for that matter. Our friends in other demonination I cant answer for 100%, but I know some do. As a minister, and staff member at a number of churches from 2,000 to almost 30,000 I do know this to be true.

    As far as carry in the church ... here in Texas it is not a problem, but I would get a written ruling from the authorities in LA to be safe.
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  10. #24
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    I'm not a lawyer, but I think you're out of luck.

    No church carry means no church carry.

    My interpretation gives a "property owner, lessee or other lawful custodian" the right to carry in certain venues, but I believe the LSP and the AG win this round.

    Sorry!

  11. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ridgeline View Post
    Jerry that may be true in your state, but I assure you that is not the case here in Texas. The trustees, deacons, pastor, etc controls the church including the property that it sets on. The SBC, SBOT, BGCT here in Texas do not own churchs (as a rule), I dont know of any for that matter. Our friends in other demonination I cant answer for 100%, but I know some do. As a minister, and staff member at a number of churches from 2,000 to almost 30,000 I do know this to be true.

    As far as carry in the church ... here in Texas it is not a problem, but I would get a written ruling from the authorities in LA to be safe.
    Hi Ridgeline,

    I am interested, and not from a point to see if I am right, but would like to know. My own understanding is that most or many SBC churches begin with financing from the SBC or other established SBC churches. I understood that the way it was set up was that although the local congregation does control the local church, that the SBC actually is the owner of the facility.

    So are you sure that your church is not in that situation, or are you assuming that your local church is the owner? Again, I am just wanting to know. I never thought it was right for the congregation to make sacrifices to build and buy only to have the denomination own the property. Then if a local church wanted to withdraw from the denomination it had to give up the property.

    I realize that in a way we are off topic, and maybe I should have gone PM with this, but since the subject is whether the local church has the right to establish who can carry I figured others are interested.

    Mods feel free to do as you wish on this, and I will go PM, but do want to know the facts as near as can be determined. I also know it might vary with the particular local church depending upon how it was financed.

    Regards,
    Jerry

  12. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by farronwolf View Post
    The provisions of R.S. 40:1379.3 (N) shall not limit the right of a property owner, lessee, or other lawful custodian to prohibit or restrict access of those persons possessing a concealed handgun pursuant to a permit issued under this Section. No individual to whom a concealed handgun permit is issued may carry such concealed handgun into the private residence of another without first receiving the consent of that person.
    Since when is a preacher not a lawful custodian? I have a real hard time believing that you wouldn't qualify for that category. If nothing else, I would surely argue that at the least you are the lawful custodian during a sermon, since the congregation is there to hear God's message through you.

    Smart carry?
    Last edited by Captain Crunch; August 23rd, 2008 at 01:09 PM. Reason: Fixed quote tags.

  13. #27
    Distinguished Member Array JerryM's Avatar
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    If a business could authorize employees to carry while in that business, and I do not know if that is so in LA, it would follow that a pastor or church leadership could also authorize carrying when in the church.
    I do not see how the state can dictate how the church is going to operate. Of course even if a legal challenge would be in favor of the church it would be costly.

    Regards,
    Jerry

  14. #28
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    Unhappy

    Talked to my Local Rep here just a few minutes ago about my situation of being able to carry in Church. Note The Law states that it is a flat out no. Well Anyway there was recently a bill that was passed concerning the workplace and carrying a Gun ( I think he said bill 51 ).Well since that bill was passed and that is my workplace and I keep it someplace secure I will be alright. This came by way of the Attorney Generals office through my State Rep. By the way This state rep is great and I will definetly support him when elections roll around

  15. #29
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    That's great news!! I'm glad to hear that it worked out for you!

  16. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by preachertim View Post
    Talked to my Local Rep here just a few minutes ago about my situation of being able to carry in Church. Note The Law states that it is a flat out no. Well Anyway there was recently a bill that was passed concerning the workplace and carrying a Gun ( I think he said bill 51 ).Well since that bill was passed and that is my workplace and I keep it someplace secure I will be alright. This came by way of the Attorney Generals office through my State Rep. By the way This state rep is great and I will definetly support him when elections roll around
    I wouldn't put a lot of faith in that defense. Here's the text of the law you're talking about.

    http://www.legis.state.la.us/billdat...asp?did=504213

    First, it only applies to storing a firearm in your vehicle while on company property, not concealed carry. Second, it only forbids employers from prohibiting guns, not the state government. And the clincher, if you read subsection D.1, it specifically says that this law does not apply anywhere firearms are prohibited by state or federal law. So, churches are still out, even if you're an employee.

    By all means, support your pro-gun rep, but he's wrong on this count. But maybe you can get him to sponsor a CCW reform bill removing the carry prohibition.
    "A well-educated electorate, being necessary to the continuance of a free state, the right of the people to keep and read books shall not be infringed."
    Is this hard to understand? Then why does it get unintelligible to some people when 5 little words are changed?

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