Church carry in La

This is a discussion on Church carry in La within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Recently moved to Lousiana and Pastor a small church in Monroe. Called State Police to verify that although Church carry is Prohibited that because I ...

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Thread: Church carry in La

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array preachertim's Avatar
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    Church carry in La

    Recently moved to Lousiana and Pastor a small church in Monroe. Called State Police to verify that although Church carry is Prohibited that because I am the Pastor that it is OK. I was told that it was what it said. I am always in and out of the church and if i have to disarm because of this law it is going to upset my carry routine severely. Any comments or help. I have got a call in to the AG s office for them to clarify also.

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    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    If I am reading the Louisianna statute correctly, you will have to get permision from the actual church members, or whomever owns the property. I assume that since your just the pastor you don't actually own the property, but were just hired to preach.

    The provisions of R.S. 40:1379.3 (N) shall not limit the right of a property owner, lessee, or other lawful custodian to prohibit or restrict access of those persons possessing a concealed handgun pursuant to a permit issued under this Section. No individual to whom a concealed handgun permit is issued may carry such concealed handgun into the private residence of another without first receiving the consent of that person.

    If you were hired to be the music director, would that be any different than being hired to preach? Like I said, the way I read it you will have to get permission from either the owner, lessee, or whomever the custodian would be in this case.

    Also, how long is your AR permit good after you are no longer a resident? I assume your working on getting your LA permit, but will you get it before the deadline runs out on your AR permit as a nonresident?
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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    Senior Member Array preachertim's Avatar
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    I also have A NR New hampshire permit which is good here. Next No one owns our church it is autonimous. If I have that spelled right and is self existant. No one owns it. Plus I live on the property. I have talked to the AG s office and a represenative that is going to petition them for a word on this law and as it relates to the Pastor.

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    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    The church as a non profit organization will either be organized as a non profit corporation or a non profit association in the state. Either of those will be required to have some sort of directors, officers or other similar leadership for both the state and IRS, that makes descisions regarding matters of property sale, purchase, budgets etc. Are there elders, trustees, or other board members that set your salary and benefits, these same people would actually be considered the custodians of the property in my understanding.

    I hope that LA's AG office is better than AR's. lol
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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    Senior Member Array Ragin Cajun's Avatar
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    Good for you Pastor! I wish more Pastors took the same approach. Good luck with your new assignment. Now enjoy the crawfish, gumbo, and all the other good food you will find in La.

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    Senior Member Array preachertim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by preachertim View Post
    The church as a non profit organization will either be organized as a non profit corporation or a non profit association in the state. Either of those will be required to have some sort of directors, officers or other similar leadership for both the state and IRS, that makes descisions regarding matters of property sale, purchase, budgets etc. Are there elders, trustees, or other board members that set your salary and benefits, these same people would actually be considered the custodians of the property in my understanding.

    These Guys all left the Church before I got here
    Now what

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    I know of a church in the shreveport area that lets the pastor carry and some of the deacons...they paid the deacons a dollar/year (some payroll thing) and the church members voted to allow the carry of guns. The person I know that told me about it taught the concealed carry class at the church. She told them she couldn't teach at church but they had contacted state of Louisiana and since pastor,deacons, members had voted then she was allowed to teach and they could carry at church...Only those on 1 dollar/year payroll can carry....hope i made sense with my response ha ha...

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    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by preachertim View Post
    Now what
    I would say that the church needs to get about electing or appointing some leadership, or directors, or officers, or whatever your faith calls the people that run things.

    Was there a hiring commitee, that would be the first place to start, and get some people that really like you on there, so that you can tell them straight up, that you want to carry in the church, then they can tell you to go ahead. That should make everyone happy.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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    VIP Member Array havegunjoe's Avatar
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    Don't know your laws but.....

    Quote Originally Posted by preachertim View Post
    Recently moved to Lousiana and Pastor a small church in Monroe. Called State Police to verify that although Church carry is Prohibited that because I am the Pastor that it is OK. I was told that it was what it said. I am always in and out of the church and if i have to disarm because of this law it is going to upset my carry routine severely. Any comments or help. I have got a call in to the AG s office for them to clarify also.
    Does it prohibit in church altogether, or allow with permission of someone in charge of the church? Typically these laws are written to give the church the choice as States don't want to dictate how they go about their busniess so I would be surprised if it is not so. Anyway the person in charge would be you IMHO.
    DEMOCRACY IS TWO WOLVES AND A LAMB VOTING ON WHAT TO HAVE FOR LUNCH. LIBERTY IS A WELL ARMED LAMB CONtestING THE VOTE.

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    Distinguished Member Array JerryM's Avatar
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    Although no one individual owns the property, the congregation as a whole does unless a denomination does. For example in nearly all Southern Baptist churches, the SBC owns the property no matter that the congregation paid for it. The same is true of some Presbyterian churches.

    Assuming the local church congregation owns the church, the church or those elected to represent the church would seem to have the authority.

    It will be interesting to learn what the state AG has to say.

    Regards,
    Jerry

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    Member Array TonyB's Avatar
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    Since you are the "sheppard"of this particular flock that God has intrusted to you,legalities aside,I think it is your duty to carry to protect them.I know the Bible says to obey the law of the land,but immoral laws(which I think most laws that make us sitting ducks are)are an exception.just one Christian's opinion.
    which bring up the question
    WWJC(what would Jesus carry?)
    "Just because I'm paranoid,doesn't mean they're NOT after me...."

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    Distinguished Member Array Gideon's Avatar
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    Biblically, a church is an assembly of people. The Pastor is the biblically estabished authority. In Missouri it says you have to have permission of the church leadership. Not sure there. If the law says the owner then that's Jesus but the congregation can vote to allow it. And that can be a VERY awkward thing and could even be a stumblingblock in which case we would need to forego our rights.

    Research the law carefully yourself and if you feel you need something more than the Pastor's authority then talk to a few men to get their thoughts. They've been there and know the congregation and how receptive they might be. Of course if you take this route and their not receptive, or the congregation then you really have no choice.

    The alternative is to wait a bit and get to know your people and give them a chance to get to know you.

    Being choosen by a people to be a Pastor can not biblically be compard to being hired to do anything in a church and this has nothing to do with being a non-profit as a church is a church irregardless of non-profit status. In fact, under federal law any church is a non-profit whether they've filed or not, period.

    More importantly, you might need to consider what the church constitution says. A church consitution is nothing more than a church putting in writing how they themselves have decided to run their affairs. The Bible is the final authority but the consitution is used when the Church is forced to deal with carnal christians because courts don't recognize the Bible but will recognize a consitution. What does the current constitution say about how decisions are reached?

    If you must get the owner's permission then somehow you need the permission of the congregation. Another approach would be to bring it up after a while as a discussion point "after" a regular business meeting. Bring it up as a discussion on Church Security. Explain how we've all see alarming trends of attacks in church and that you think the church should consider allowing licensed carriers to carry with the advance permission of the Pastor. You don't need to say anything about yourself. Then suggest that it's better if it's not known who does carry but that you would know. You can tell the folks that this is just another matter of security for protecting the congregation (one of your jobs) just as you have procedures in how you run your nursury to protect the babies and to protect the church from liability.

    If you take this discussion route and no one objects, recommend that the church make a simple vote to extend this authority to the Pastor, document it in the church meeting minutes and you're done. If the reaction is negative, table the idea and wait 6 months to a year.

    you should also address the topic of security with the ushers. In a small rural congregation just having one always sit at the very furthest back of the church house is a good idea and to instruct them on how to handle situations when YOU deem it necessary to remove someone from the services. Hopefully you never have to but if you ever do, that's not the time to discuss with the men how.

    Anyway, sorry for the long post; I hope this helps a little.

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    Senior Member Array preachertim's Avatar
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    I talked to my local State Rep here in La named Steve Little I think and he is going to put in the question to the AG. This is wierd but only an elected official can ask the AG for a statement of opinion as far as laws Go. They will not give you legal advice which I completely understand but he is going to get some clarification for me. I was told by the La. State police and someone from the AG s office that it is what it says.That leaves me in a position of being vulnerable and I am not comfortable with that . Will keep you posted over the next few days and what the response is. by the way this state Rep was very helpful, personal and most of all positive about Gun Rights and CCW.
    Thanks

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    Senior Member Array preachertim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by havegunjoe View Post
    Does it prohibit in church altogether, or allow with permission of someone in charge of the church? Typically these laws are written to give the church the choice as States don't want to dictate how they go about their busniess so I would be surprised if it is not so. Anyway the person in charge would be you IMHO.

    it says no Carry in church.

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    Distinguished Member Array Bob The Great's Avatar
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    Yes, church carry is flat-out against the law, and this is one of my biggest disappointments with LA's gun laws. I came from TX, where carrying in church is perfectly OK, as long as it's not marked with a 30.06 sign.

    Honestly, it's kept me from being as active in my church as I'd like to be. Sad, but it's true.

    Hopefully, we can get that changed, along with a couple of the other legal idiosynchracies around here.
    "A well-educated electorate, being necessary to the continuance of a free state, the right of the people to keep and read books shall not be infringed."
    Is this hard to understand? Then why does it get unintelligible to some people when 5 little words are changed?

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