God and Guns?

God and Guns?

This is a discussion on God and Guns? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; OK, this has been bugging me for some time now and I gotta ask this; especially since we have so many Ministers on this forum. ...

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Thread: God and Guns?

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array Paco's Avatar
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    God and Guns?

    OK, this has been bugging me for some time now and I gotta ask this; especially since we have so many Ministers on this forum.

    I have been told by several people that I don't need to carry a gun, although no one seems too worried over the knives I carry (but I digress) because I am a Christian and "Christ said to turn the other cheek". When I respond that Christ also said that if you don't have a sword to sell one of your cloaks and buy one (very loose translation for ease of getting my point across on this board) and also I reference all those in the OT that were warriors, etc. I am always told that I am taking those references out of context.

    Not that I should even get in to it with anyone on this subject, but I have never been one to be told I am wrong and just leave it at that .

    How have some of you, especially the Ministers in the group, dealt with this (other than just walking away)?

    Some things I have told them (yes, the infamous "them") was that my main responsibility as ordained by God when he blessed me with a family was to protect them with my life. Another responsibility I take on is if I see someone in need I am going to help, have always done it but now I have 1 more tool in which to do it if called upon to do so.

    I have yet to use the line that I carry because a Cop won't fit in my pocket, I think that might end the conversation fairly quickly if I did, but I will one day.

    Thoughts, suggestions, should I really care, should I just give them a "S" eating grin and walk away?
    "Don't hit a man if you can possibly avoid it; but if you do hit him, put him to sleep." - Theodore Roosevelt

    -Paco
    http://www.shieldsd.net


  2. #2
    Member Array NDN-MAN's Avatar
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    Why tell them??

    If you carry concealed don't tell.
    My thinking is if something happens. ( Lets hope not )
    And you don't feel the need to draw your weapon. One of the people that know you carry may speak at a bad time. ( WHY DON'T YOU USE YOUR GUN???)
    People knowing you carry may cause you more problems than you think.
    So I would say " Your right " and keep my weapon concealed and not tell anyone I carry

    GOOD LUCK & STAY SAFE
    It's not the bow or the arrow It's the NDN

  3. #3
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    I don't know that your going to get an answer that your looking for.

    The simple answer is imo, since all Christians can't agree with the rules or what it takes to be a Christian, then how can someone flat out tell you that it is wrong to carry a gun as a Christian.

    If all Christians believed exactly the same thing, and every one of them said it was wrong, then I guess it would be time to listen, but that ain't going to happen, especially not on this forum.

    Do what you feel in your heart is right. If your not breaking one of the two commandments that Christ gave to you, then hey, your doing good by him. Your not accountable to anyone else, well except your wife when you get home.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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  4. #4
    VIP Member Array JAT40's Avatar
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    Not a Minister, so here's goes anyway. Real bad things happen to good and yes Godly people. I don't care what they say, I don't believe that it's Gods will that me or my family be victims of a brutal attack, how could ever trust Him if that was so? Thus I carry, It's Gods will that we have life, abundant life. We live in a fallen world just because God lets (His permissive will) bad things happen doesn't mean it's His perfect will for our lives. Or just say "I asked God, and He's good with it".

  5. #5
    VIP Member Array Paco's Avatar
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    So far those are all my sentiments as well, and yes concealed is concealed. I just know that some in my In-Law side don't even like the fact that I own firearms at all, and that is fine with me. They don't even know that when they come over I have one on me at all times, and it will stay that way unless something happens and I have to draw; which I will just deal with whatever happens at that time (God forbid).

    And I agree, Farronwolf, if we (Christians) can't agree on the color of the friggin carpet in the sanctuary then we certainly won't agree on this.
    "Don't hit a man if you can possibly avoid it; but if you do hit him, put him to sleep." - Theodore Roosevelt

    -Paco
    http://www.shieldsd.net

  6. #6
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    Untold scores of people have been killed in the name of God. These days it seems to be in the name of Allah.

    To me, my life is sacred and only God has the right to call me from this earth. I don't think he would be happy if I sacrificed my life to the evil that walks among us! I work in a high risk occupation and am willing to sacrifice my life for the sake of others in need. But I won't sacrifice my life to some stick up artist who wants to feed his crack habit, or to other similar vermin with evil intentions in their heart.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  7. #7
    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paco View Post
    "Christ said to turn the other cheek". When I respond that Christ also said that if you don't have a sword to sell one of your cloaks and buy one (very loose translation for ease of getting my point across on this board) and also I reference all those in the OT that were warriors, etc. I am always told that I am taking those references out of context.
    My step-dad was an ABC ans SBC Pastor in rural Colorado, KS and TN. He carried his bible and Ruger Super Blackhawk everywhere.

    Christ threw the money lenders out of the temple. Let's analyze this: one man throws out at least two (lender s ) other grown men-probably several more, given circumstances of the time- who made their livings loaning and collecting on those loans.

    So they just said, "Cool, bro' we unner stan'..."??? I would suspect His sandles fluffed some robes, and his carpenter's knuckles scraped some hide.

    Humanists would always have us believe that righteousness is a human trait that humans both nurture and sustain through acceptance and recognition that all values are subjective- there are no hard "right" and "wrong." As there are no hard, inviolable social limits, there is nothing worth fighting for, afterall, violence begets violence, right? First and foremost, remember: humanistic philosophy is diametrically opposed to Christian life (not "doctrine" or "theology,", but "life" as exemplified by Christ.)

    Lastly, "...be not a worker in need of instruction..." I would place little faith in the brotherhood or teachings of persons displaying their ignorance so freely.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Array KevinDooley's Avatar
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    I think you hit the nail on the head... God gave you a role in your family to provide for them and to protect them - showing the love that Christ did for creation if need be and protect them with your own life.

    Matthew 5 (where the turn the other cheek thing comes from) uses a lot of hyperbole and is basically trying to get the point across that we should do everything from the motive of love. To try make it a literal application in life has lead to perpetuation of senseless violence in more than one occassion.

    That's just my .02 as a minister... YMMV
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes

    The will to win is worthless if you do not have the will to prepare. -Thane Yost

  9. #9
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    If you read the "turn the other cheek" comment in context (as every quote should be read), you will see it is in reference to an insult, slap to the face, or some other non physically damaging action. No where does it say to let someone kill you and your family. We are charged with protecting our family.

    This, I think, will clear the confusion. Always check the context.
    eschew obfuscation

    The only thing that stops bad guys with guns is good guys with guns. SgtD

  10. #10
    JD
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    I'll turn the other cheek all right, right after I shoot the first bad guy and look for more.



    More simply put.
    You can't turn the other cheek if you're dead.

    After I stop the threat, I will do my best to forgive my assailant for earning his bullet.

  11. #11
    Member Array kohburn's Avatar
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    commandment says not to murder, and some of the apostles were known to carry swords. I think defense of ones self and others is expected.
    "An armed society is a polite society" - Robert A. Heinlein

  12. #12
    Member Array PepsiDad's Avatar
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    God doesn't frown on me when I use a hammer to build a house, a wrench to fix a pipe or a screwdriver to tighten a screw. Then why should He frown on me to use a gun to protect myself or my family?

    Hammers, wrenches, screwdrivers, guns. These can all be used to hurt people. These can also be used for protection. Guns just happen to be more efficient at both.

    It's all about intent and what's in your heart when you use the tool.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Array flagflyfish's Avatar
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    This is one of the best things I have ever read on this subject.Ed. Note: Jeff originally wrote this piece for Christian Sixgunners (Glorifying God, Celebrating Liberty). Check them out!

    Boge

    I have been asked on occasion how I can justify carrying a gun and being a Christian at the same time. This is always posed by someone who is trying to trip me up. It can either be a devout Christian asking the question, or a Hedonistic heathen; it doesnít matter. There are those who believe, or choose to believe, that a Christian must be absolutely passive in all things. I am not just referring to those Christians who ride a horse and buggy. I have been asked about my views on self defense by Christians of most every denomination. Some are genuinely seeking an answer. Others just want to chastise me for not being as "faithful" as themselves.

    Many will accept every modern worldly convenience, but scoff at the idea of trying to protect oneself or the life of another. Their attitude seems to be that "God will protect us". They do have a valid point. God will protect us from the evils of this world, if he so chooses. I would rather have God on my side than a battery of Sidewinder missiles. Indeed, our God can protect us. However, that attitude would lead one to believe that he could walk through Harlem wearing a Ku Klux Klan outfit campaigning for George Wallace, and that "God will protect us". God could get you through that, but Jesus said that we should not tempt God. I tend to agree with his assessment.

    In the saddlebag of my motorcycle, I have a tiny cross with the inscription "Faith Moves Mountains", but I also ride in the mountains of East Tennessee and the western United States, and I make sure that my brakes are in good working order. I could just trust God to catch me, but again, that could be construed as tempting God. God gave us brakes on our motorcycles, and that is sufficient.

    God can indeed protect us. He can keep us safe on the highways, and he can also keep us safe from those who would intentionally do us harm. I am not speaking of politicians here, but of the evil that is in the souls of some human beings. Be certain in this; there is true evil in this world, and it sometimes manifests itself in the form of a low life predator. Being a Christian, it is difficult to believe that people, made of the same composition of flesh, bone, and blood as ourselves, could be truly evil. We have a Heavenly Father who has filled us with basic goodness, but Jesus said that there are those "who are of the synagogue of Satan".

    No sane individual would hesitate to defend himself from a rabid dog or a poisonous snake, but are the two-legged vipers of this world any better than an animal? An animal does that which comes naturally to him. Children of Satan do that which comes naturally to them: that being evil.

    Can God protect us from those who would do us harm? Absolutely. However, just as he has given us brakes to save us from the mountain, he has also given to us the tools necessary to defend ourselves, and those whom God has given to us. As Christian men, God not only allows us to protect our families, but he expects us to protect those whom he has placed in our care. This may seem contrary to the mandate for us to "turn the other cheek", and I too have pondered over this. It takes great strength to turn the other cheek as Jesus intended. That is not a commandment to be weak. Jesus did not operate from a position of weakness. In fact, nothing ever happened to him that he did not allow.

    God has entrusted us with the care of our brothers, whether those "brothers" be the children that he has given to us, or our wives, or our friends. We could set our children outside in the cold and trust that God would keep them warm. We could abandon them and trust that God will keep them fed. We could let them loose on the city streets or send them off for a week at Neverland, and trust that no sick, evil freak would abuse them. As Christians, we do not do these things to our children. God expects us to clothe them, feed them, and protect them from the evil that is inherent in this world. He gave to us the ability to buy clothes, grow food, build a fire, and to fight off those who would do us harm. In the time that Jesus walked the Earth in the form of man, the short sword was the state-of-the-art weapon. He told his followers that the time of living carefree was over, and that the time had come for those without a sword to "sell his garment and buy one".

    Today, we have better than a sword. We have more modern weapons at our disposal, and so does our enemy. Keeping a good rifle to defend oneís homestead and a reliable handgun to ward off evil that finds you when you least expect it is not only prudent, but expected. A Christian man is not mean, hateful, spiteful, or quick to anger. Neither is he weak. God never told us to let the evil in this world run over us like a train. He never told us to stand by idly as those whom he trusted to us are abused or killed. A Christian man who packs a gun does not look for trouble, and avoids it if at all possible. However, evil can seek you out.

    A well-armed man operates from a position of strength. He is less likely to have to fight than an unarmed man. The predators in this world look for easy prey. God did not put his people on this Earth to be prey for the sons of Satan. God expects us to stand up for what is right, and he gives us the tools with which to do so. When you defend the life of one of Godís children, you are defending good against evil. Use your good sense and Godís word to avoid trouble. If necessary, use the gun at your side to stand against it.

    Jeff Quinn
    "These are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier
    and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the
    service of his country; but he that stands it now, deserves the
    love and thanks of man and woman."

    -- Thomas Paine (The American Crisis, No. 1, 19 December 1776)

  14. #14
    Member Array Swamp Fox's Avatar
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    Ask "them" why they wear seatbelts? The same arguement applies.

    We all live in a dangerous world and God gave some of us common sense.

  15. #15
    New Member Array lhuff's Avatar
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    The New testament

    King James Bible - Luke 22:36 Jesus said
    Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

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