Concealed carry restrictions....Getting rid of them....

This is a discussion on Concealed carry restrictions....Getting rid of them.... within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Idaho is quite leniant, much like Texas. Only restrictions are schools, jails, courtrooms, not necessarily courthouses. <p>I googled Utah's rules, as I'll be moving there ...

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Thread: Concealed carry restrictions....Getting rid of them....

  1. #31
    Distinguished Member Array jarhead79's Avatar
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    Idaho is quite leniant, much like Texas. Only restrictions are schools, jails, courtrooms, not necessarily courthouses. <p>I googled Utah's rules, as I'll be moving there this coming year. They don't list the school restriction. They have the jails, courtrooms, some businesses and churches if they don't want guns in their buildings, but they have to post their pretty little signs at the doors.
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  3. #32
    Senior Member Array Zundfolge's Avatar
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    Colorado has pretty good restrictions.

    Carry everywhere except:
    1) places you can't carry by federal law
    2) places that require you to walk through metal detectors
    3) schools (but you can carry in your car on school property ... gun just can't leave car) Also if you're school security you can CCW, and if you're legally hunting or engaged in "shooting sports" on school owned property you can CCW.

    Thats it.

    Bar carry is fine, restaruants that serve alcohol are fine (just don't be "under the influence"), Places with signs that say "No Guns" have no real legal force unless they have metal detectors (and then its only a trespassing charge if you don't leave when asked), churches, malls, any other public building is fine (again, as long as no metal detectors).

    Plus you can CCW in your car without a license.

  4. #33
    Member Array sarhog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rachilders
    Many will disagree, but I think it's a good idea about taking no guns into a place where people mainly go to drink.
    I suppose I'm one of many. I disagree with that.

    Why is it a good idea to restrict firearms from a place where people go to drink?
    Are bars somehow safer than the rest of the planet, a place where my safety is somehow guaranteed?
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  5. #34
    Senior Member Array Zundfolge's Avatar
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    License to carry should be like license to drive.

    Drive (carry) drunk you lose your license.

    I know there are some who think there should be zero tolerence for alcohol and carry, but there's absolutely no reason why if I'm sober enough to drive that I'm NOT sober enough to defend myself.

  6. #35
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    MI has really opened up the CCW laws. We can carry while bow hunting, restricted area parking lots are not off limits to carry, you can carry in restraunts seving alcohol , just not main income booze joints. Open carry in your car is permitted.

  7. #36
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    Open Car Carry

    When did the law concerning open car carry come into effect? The way I understand it, once you enter the car the pistol is considered concealed whether or not it is covered with your cover garment or laying on the dashboard. Therefore, you need to have a CPL (concealed pistol license) otherwise you have to separate the pistol and ammunition and and place them in the trunk of the vehicle or where they are inaccessable from the occupants of the vehicle (ie pickup truck).

    Michigan does have open carry and I do enjoy that but the information below makes it difficult if you do not have a CCW.


    Car/Gun law summary

    Date updated: Jul 28, 2005 @ 8:54 pm

    From the Michigan State Police Web Site.

    7. If I do not have a CCW permit, may I transport my pistol in a motor vehicle?

    Answer: A person is now permitted to transport a pistol for a lawful purpose if the owner or occupant of the vehicle is the registered owner of the firearm and the pistol is unloaded and in a closed case in the trunk of the vehicle. If the vehicle does not have a trunk, the pistol may be in the passenger compartment of the vehicle unloaded and inaccessible to the occupants of the vehicle.

    The law defines ‘lawful purpose’ as:

    * While en route to or from a hunting or target shooting area.
    * While transporting a pistol to or from home or place of business and a place of repair.
    * While moving goods from one place of residence or business to another place of residence or business.
    * While transporting a licensed pistol to or from a law enforcement agency for the purpose of having a safety inspection performed (registering the pistol) or to have a law enforcement official take possession of the pistol.
    * While en route to or from home or place of business to a gun show or place of purchase or sale.
    * While en route to or from home to a public shooting facility or land where the discharge of firearms is permitted.
    * While en route to or from home to private property where the pistol is to be used as permitted by law, rule, regulation, or local ordinance.

    Also from the state police web site:

    1. Do I need a concealed pistol permit to carry my pistols while walking through the woods near my cabin in Michigan? If not, are there any restrictions on how or where the gun is carried?

    MCL 28.422 No license is needed to carry a pistol as long as it is exposed. However, should a person cover the pistol during inclement weather with a jacket or coat or get into a vehicle, the pistol would be concealed, and the carrier would place himself in jeopardy unless he possessed a concealed pistol permit. Per Attorney General’s opinion #3158 dated February 14, 1945, a holster, in plain view, is not considered concealed. Department of Natural Resources regulations require a person to have a valid Michigan hunting license if in an area inhabited by wildlife, while in possession of a firearm.


    Again, if I am wrong please let me know as I want to be current with all the laws.

    Thanks,

    Eric
    Last edited by ecbaatz; December 10th, 2005 at 06:00 PM.

  8. #37
    Member Array IndianaDean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Lowe
    That would be nice. But I think our best bet would be to get rid of the pistol free zones first, then work on getting rid of the need for permits. As it is, I doubt if this is something we'll see in my life time.
    That's a good point. Add that to the list.

  9. #38
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    Ya know...Ive been pondering....

    I work at a nuclear plant where pretty much every thing that is done is covered by a "procedure". A procedure is like a set of instructions that must be followed exactly as it is read. If you "violate" the instructions in that procedure one can incure civil fines,jail time, and in extreme cases even up to and including loseing your liscense to operate the power plant.

    Of course, everyone that has to use procedures has to have continuing training on the use of them, and this is reguired by the Nuclear Regulatory Committe(NRC) which is the government organization that says that you can or cant operate.

    This training includes the meaning of certain words and how they are to be interpreted. A few examples of some would be the word "should" which means that in certain case you can deviate as long as you have a vaild reason.Another would be "may" which means that you have the option of using a different way of doing something that may or may not be included in the language of the procedure as long as the intent is meant.

    The one word out of many that we use that allows for no discretion, meaning that it must be done exactly as outlined in the procedure is the word "SHALL".

    For instance, if the procedure says that you SHALL notify the Control Room Supervisor prior to commencing work, and you forget to do it, at the very least you will face disciplinary action. Depending on how serious the violation was and what may have been affected, you could be fired.If it can be proved that it was intentional, you could face civil penalties and lose 10 years of your life playing wife to Bubba in the penitentary.

    It is clear to us that work there that the word SHALL is not to be messed with and the that meaning is very clear to anyone with half of a brain.

    Which brings me to this point...

    Since "the right to bear arms SHALL not be infringed" just when exactly did the meaning change ?

    In my simple way of thinking, SHALL not be infringed means... dont mess with it.

    Meaning that ANY restricition due to the way a weapon happens to look, cost, or carried and ALL of the laws that pertain to such, the permits, liscenses and ANY limitation of wherer you can and cant carry ought to be declared NULL and VOID.

    If the U.S. Constitituion is still the law of the land, it could be argued that ANY thing that hinders the bearing of arms is illegal.

    Since the U.S. Government and all of the powers that be put such an improtance on the word "SHALL" why should it be any different with this particular prhase that is sp near and dear to us all ?


  10. #39
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    If the U.S. Constitituion is still the law of the land,
    HG wish that it was - demonstrably that is. Sadly ''erosion'' has taken its toll. Sad to say too those in office who swear to uphold said constitution are IMO breaking said oath.

    Then tho sadly again - your vote and mine are mere drops in the ocean when it comes to reminding these people of what ''SHALL'' really means. Go canvassing in CA regarding SHALL - see what happens!

    Your point is tho well taken.
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  11. #40
    Member Array Trade_Sniper's Avatar
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    Ok, if I were king for a day, my first rule would be that I would remain king from then on. :)

    Seems like the overwhelming main objection here is the right to carry anywhere and that is my first choice. That includes places that serve alcohol, but you can't be drunk, no more than the legal driving limit, thats just common sense.

    Second, pick the state with the most favorable (for us) CCW regulations and adopt them nationwide, no state-specifics allowed.
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  12. #41
    Senior Member Array older gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns
    One thing for a fact...

    I have qualified dozens of Teachers for CCW permits. We have discussed this subject at length. So far, every one that has a permit would carry in school grounds if it were legal and at the very least keep one in a locked car.

    I am reminded of the teacher in Jonesboro, Arkansas that died in a school shooting. It was never covered in the news media much, other than the fact that she was killed. What they didnt say was how.

    She was sitting on the ground with a student that had been shot, she had his head in her lap. As bullets were hitting the ground around them both, she turned and shielded that students body with her own. Unfortunatley, she was struck and killed. That student likely owes that teacher his life.

    As it stands now, all we have done is GUARANTEED that our schools are target rich environments. If each school in this country had just a few teachers with the gumption that the one in Jonesboro had and they had access to guns, school shootings would be a thing of the past.

    My wife has been teaching for 28 years and she loves her job and her students. In the event of a shooting scenario, I would like to think that she at least had a fighting chance.

    I'm not insinuating that its a perfect solution, but it would be better than the huddling up in the corner if a shooter did walk into class...

    Hot Guns,
    I agree 100%. I think the idea that qualified staff cannot carry, when there are so many school shootings, is all wrong. The school is like other places. Arm the good guys and the BG's will lay off.

  13. #42
    Senior Member Array Al Lowe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trade_Sniper
    Ok, if I were king for a day, my first rule would be that I would remain king from then on. :)

    Seems like the overwhelming main objection here is the right to carry anywhere and that is my first choice. That includes places that serve alcohol, but you can't be drunk, no more than the legal driving limit, thats just common sense.

    Second, pick the state with the most favorable (for us) CCW regulations and adopt them nationwide, no state-specifics allowed.
    I'd vote for Indiana's regs. Permit is now for life, and they have like only one or two places you can't carry. And it's cheap too!!

  14. #43
    Senior Member Array .45acp's Avatar
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    Another Pennsylvanian here.
    I would like to see at least one day of training required, just the very basics.
    Added to P95's list of off limits places in PA., can't carry in a State Police Barracks.
    I would like to see training more readily available.
    I would like to see national reciprocation and I also agree that one should be allowed to carry anywhere.
    Consider the following:
    1) Remember the recent court house shootings?
    2) Ever been in an inner city school? Or remember Columbine?
    3) Military Bases-We can trust these people with auto weapons but not with CCW?
    4) Remember hearing of all the work place shootings?
    5) Our basic rights
    6) ............................

  15. #44
    Member Array gunsavey's Avatar
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    Concealed carry restrictions....Getting rid of them....

    I think my (Signature), is quite appropriate at this point!
    1. Dum spiramus tuebimur -"While we breath, we shall defend"

  16. #45
    Senior Member Array TonyW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarhog
    Well, If I was King for a day , I would get rid of the "no weapons" policy on Military Installations (since I spend the majority of my waking hours there, or in transit).
    But, if I can only change a state requirement (Florida), I think I would allow concealed carry in bars.
    I don't spend much time in courthouses or schools.
    I'm stuck with this too. Though even if you could take one on a military installation I still couldn't carry in uniform. But at least I could leave it locked in the truck.

    Here in Ohio I think we have lots of things that need fixed, and that have been discussed in other threads. The stupid plain sight rule, not being able to carry in bars and anywhere else that serves alcohol (and therefore most restaurants), churches, etc. And a state preemption rule so the local cities can't add restrictions that are impossible to keep track of. The requirements to get the permit are fairly decent though so that's a plus.
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