Concealed carry restrictions....Getting rid of them.... - Page 4

Concealed carry restrictions....Getting rid of them....

This is a discussion on Concealed carry restrictions....Getting rid of them.... within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I've got a real simple version of what I think should be changed. No license required to carry, concealed or otherwise. PERIOD . Only restrictions ...

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  1. #46
    Senior Member Array madmike's Avatar
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    I've got a real simple version of what I think should be changed.

    No license required to carry, concealed or otherwise. PERIOD.

    Only restrictions should be along the lines of the driver's license, make the "Right" available upon the age of majority, nation-wide. (18 sounds reasonable, to me.) Make a basic firearms safety class in all schools manditory, to be completed in the year before the age of majority.

    Criminal use of a weapon, make the punishment severe!

    Convicted of a crime of violence, loose your right to carry, but provide an avenue of appeal, where reasonable standards would apply.

    Oh well, back to reality now. . .

    mm
    Political Correctness has now "evolved" into Political Cowardice.


  2. #47
    Member Array DParker's Avatar
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    My county adds a limitation on the CCW permits that prohibit carry at "public events or gatherings where alcohol is served or consumed". That can be a real problem since alcohol is served most everywhere. About the only public events I can attend armed is a church picnic. Not sure how strictly it is enforced...probaby depends on the situation, but I don't like it.

  3. #48
    New Member Array DocMustang's Avatar
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    Hospitals

    This is my first post so please be nice. I am a medical student and a future emergency room physician. Most of the "interesting" places to work in this field are located in correspondingly "interesting" parts of town.

    As such I am currently going through the process of selecting a weapon and obtaining a CCW here in Michigan. Unfortunately, Hospitals are off limits for CCW even for (and perhaps especially for staff). Michigan law requires that I disarm and leave the weapon in the car before entering the hospital. If you take public transportation forget being armed you have no place to disarm and store your weapon. As such I am denied the most effective means of self-defense (should situational awareness fail).

    I would like to see the ban lifted or at the least be permitted to disarm at hospital security and check my weapon there (admittedly not the best option) According to the law, possession of a firearm within the walls of the hospital by non LEO, non -security, non-private detectives is a misdemeanor for the first offence followed by a felony for subsequent offences. A felony conviction makes it rather difficult to practice medicine as it usually entails loss of your medical licensure. Not a good outcome. But then again neither is being dead

  4. #49
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    Welcome Doc

    You are for sure in an unenviable situation, in particular if public transportation is method of choice to and from work.

    Hard to see any workaround. Does make you think tho ''what if'' - regarding certain not so impossible scenarios.
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

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  5. #50
    New Member Array DocMustang's Avatar
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    It is only a problem at U of M. Parking is simply unavailable to med students. Public transit is the way to go.
    On the other hand I do have a good freind from college who works in security...we might be able to come to some arrangement.

  6. #51
    VIP Member Array PatrioticRick's Avatar
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    Well Idaho is pretty good for restrictions, only courthouses, jails, & schools.

    I do like the Idea that there should be gun lockers at each main entrance, instead of leaving in car.

    Also I'd like your CWL to be added to drivers license (since number is the same in Idaho) and be good anywhere drivers license is.
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  7. #52
    Senior Member Array A1C Lickey's Avatar
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    If I were king for a day I'd treat CCW the same as driving. If you're too drunk to drive, you can't carry. I really hate removing my firearm whenever I goto a restaurant. (By the way, did anyone know that some Denny's serve alcohol?) Next I would get rid of no carry zones like schools. I don't know if I would allow carry onto military bases. (And believe me, living on base, that is a real thorn in my side.)
    TSgt. Lickey

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  8. #53
    Member Array Trade_Sniper's Avatar
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    I think CCW should be allowed on military installations. For one thing, certain military members have more firearms training than LEO's. Plus its a secure facility, full of people who already handle weapons and munitions and have had an exhaustive background check.
    *** IN CASE OF EMERGENCY, DIAL - 1911 ***

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  9. #54
    VIP Member Array Tubby45's Avatar
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    For MI:

    Allow carry in churches, bars if not drinking, schools, university classrooms, hospitals. That is all that affects me. Mostly for deliveries. Hate having to disarm just to run a pizza into the tavern for the bartender, etc. PITA.

    Well of course no permit or training needed. Maybe a lifetime permit like Indiana has would be a step in the right direction.
    07/02 FFL/SOT since 2006

  10. #55
    Member Array Trade_Sniper's Avatar
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    I had a thought earlier today. This was specific to apartments, but could definitely apply to other areas like workplaces or other areas where they currently don't want us to carry. Anyway...

    Seems like I remember reading in a lease agreement for some apartments that they didn't allow leasee's to have guns which is a total crock, I don't think they can prohibit that since it is your home and a 2A right, but I guess that doesn't really matter too much today? Maybe they can prohibit 'carry' in say the gym, pool area or other 'commons' type places, but I don't think they can tell you that you can't keep a gun in your home if by every other means you can legally own one.

    While I was thinking about that, trying to see it from both sides, I thought that what they could do is say that if you are going to carry a firearm, especially in close quarters living areas like apartments, that you must have training, some type of initial certification, then some type of ongoing practice or training, regularly, say at least once a month, you go to the range (that doesn't seem like too much to ask) or some other form of training. Now i can hear some of you grumbling already about being forced to practice, but think about it. It's not completely forced, either practice regularly, to keep your skills finely honed and continue to develop/evolve your sheepdog ways, or don't carry a weapon. Plus, its not like this is some thing being forced upon us that is unpleasant or that we hate, its just more incentive to do one of our (if not THE) favorite things. Instead of some politicians forcing us to do something worse or senseless, WE should be the ones that push for things like this. It can only help our case/cause by making us more skilled (as a whole) and SURELY would reduce the number of AD's, ND's and bad decisions (unqualified brandishing, unqualified drawing, bad shoots or whatever), at least to some degree. Plus it would show the fact that we are proactive in being responsible in this huge responsibility.

    I don't know if I agree with the 'no training or permit needed', at leasy for carrying. I think training, some type of certification, should be required and it should include at least as much discussion of self-defense law, repercussions/consequences, what justifies drawing a weapon and what doesn't, proper methods of concealment, proper methods of carrying in a vehicle, etc. as it does the technical side, at least to begin with. Perhaps have a permit, but make it dirt cheap and lifetime. I just don't think it will ever come to the point where big brother doesn't monitor it, no paperwork, where he doesn't know how many guns we have, what kind, etc.

    One problem is that I know way too many people that I really don't want carrying a weapon, just because they can, simply because the only prerequisite was a pulse. You know the ones I'm talking about, they all fit in that same category at the shallow end of the gene pool as 'shouldn't be allowed to reproduce'. Unfortunately, even the current methods of evaluation won't necessarily point out an idiot and prevent them from carrying.

    Then again, maybe I'm just crazy for thinking like this. I know we all want less restrictions, requirements, and hassles, but there has to be something to the idea of being able to police (not literally) ourselves on certain subjects to improve our group as a whole. Lets face it, the powers that be will never turn us loose with it, thinking that they will is a pipe dream, I don't believe it will ever happen. At the very least we should take a more active role in guiding and deciding its direction moving forward.

    Oh well, it was just a thought...
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  11. #56
    VIP Member Array Tubby45's Avatar
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    Well, even though I don't agree with one thing you say about requirement of training or permits, I do understand your POV. I am of the 2A is the only thing I need club, I don't need a permit to talk freely and I shouldn't need a permit to carry a firearm.

    I know with leases and such there is a grey area with 2A rights regarding the apartment itself and the common areas. At least in WI, a landlord cannot prohibit you from owning or keeping firearms in your apartment. Than can make house rules to forbid possession or carry in common areas, like pools, laundry area, hallways, etc. The law gives a "travel courtesy" to certain areas, though.

    Say for example your house rules prohibit possession of a firearm in the hallways, but in order to get your rifle from your apartment to your vehicle, you have to use the hallway. The law provides a blanket of protection to where if you are transferring your firearm from your apartment to your vehicle and not having a steak dinner on your way, you are not in violation of the house rules. Just exit your apartment, lock up, go to your vehicle, you are alright.

    I know this first hand because I fought my landlord on this and won. No lawyer, just common sense on my side. His fancy $200/hr lawyer was speechless when the judge ruled in my favor.
    07/02 FFL/SOT since 2006

  12. #57
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    Washington is very good about CC (no requirements, just clean record). No schools, courthouses, bars, (jails of course), but that's about it. And...the courthouses must provide secure lockers by law. That was very handy since I worked at one for years and it (as are many) was located in a poor area of town.

    As for restrictions, I don't see the need for many. Strangely, I'm OK with not having one in the jails. Don't spend much time there myself. As for the rest, I'd say if you screw it up, you lose it; but don't restrict me from carrying somewhere because someone at some time in the future might do something dumb.

    I agree with madmike with the need for an appeals avenue. There needs to be a way to keep a handle on the overly aggressive Chiefs and Sheriffs who like to make their own rules and forget they are there to enforce the laws, not try to make their own.

    Citizens should be innocent until proven guilty and, specifically with regard to CCW, we all seem to be treated as being guilty of being fools until we prove ourselves otherwise to the powers that be.
    eschew obfuscation

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  13. #58
    Distinguished Member Array Doc Holliday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Euclidean
    I'm not 100% saying I would but here's the thing... It's the principle of the argument at hand.

    I'm quite sick and tired of society telling me what I am and am not capable of deciding for myself just because I'm a member of the education profession. I'm quite sick of being treated like disposable human garbage by the state legislature.

    Our great Republican governor didn't even bother to send a representative to the No Texas Teacher Left Behind Forum some time ago. That's what Rick Perry thinks of me. He thinks I'm not worth his time.

    I am 24 years old. I am managing a very difficult adult situation right now with my father's recent passing, I work, I pay bills, and I can smoke and drink as much as I want to. I'm tired of being treated like a moron who doesn't know his own subject that he teaches, and I'm tired of the attitude that I can't decide for myself when and how to be armed or not armed.

    Honestly, what the heck do people think I'm going to do? Shoot a student? You think that the people who teach your children refrain from hurting them merely because they don't have legal access to firearms?

    You trust your precious children with people whom you believe would kill them?

    I'm the same person regardless of whether or not I am armed. I want the dignity of being able to make my own decision, whatever it may be.
    Amen from another public educator!
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  14. #59
    Distinguished Member Array Doc Holliday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Euclidean
    I'm not 100% saying I would but here's the thing... It's the principle of the argument at hand.

    I'm quite sick and tired of society telling me what I am and am not capable of deciding for myself just because I'm a member of the education profession. I'm quite sick of being treated like disposable human garbage by the state legislature.

    Our great Republican governor didn't even bother to send a representative to the No Texas Teacher Left Behind Forum some time ago. That's what Rick Perry thinks of me. He thinks I'm not worth his time.

    I am 24 years old. I am managing a very difficult adult situation right now with my father's recent passing, I work, I pay bills, and I can smoke and drink as much as I want to. I'm tired of being treated like a moron who doesn't know his own subject that he teaches, and I'm tired of the attitude that I can't decide for myself when and how to be armed or not armed.

    Honestly, what the heck do people think I'm going to do? Shoot a student? You think that the people who teach your children refrain from hurting them merely because they don't have legal access to firearms?

    You trust your precious children with people whom you believe would kill them?

    I'm the same person regardless of whether or not I am armed. I want the dignity of being able to make my own decision, whatever it may be.
    Sorry, I double posted. I will edit so that this post is not a complete waste.

    As a teacher I would like to have the option of CC at work. Granted there are idiots at my work that I wouldn't trust to lick a postage stamp much less carry a firearm. However SOME armed teachers in a Columbine situation could get the situation back in order before LEO arrive.

    Now in a lockdown situation I'm not just going to let somebody walk in and open fire. I hope that the teachers that teach my children feel the same way. I do have some weapons of opportunity that if used quickly could take down a gunman in the doorway to my class. Nobody would ever question why a baseball coach has a bat located in closet his classroom. The way I figure that if I postition myself up against my wall as soon as the door is breached the bat swings and nails the BG in the face. Hopefully this blow will knock him out and allow me to disarm him. I know that I have not taken into account another BG or two but I at least feel that this gives me a fighting chance.

    Other educators, what would you do????????
    Why Ike, whatever do you mean? Maybe poker's just not your game Ike. I know! Let's have a spelling contest!

  15. #60
    Member Array sevesteen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fjolnirsson
    What would you change?
    I'm from Ohio, so...


    1. Idiotic and ill-defined "plain sight in a motor vehicle" rule.

    2. Idiotic "loaded firearm in a vehicle must be locked in the glovebox or plain-sight steal-me box" rule.

    3. No carry where alcohol is served. I'll gladly accept pretty much any restriction on consuming alcohol while carrying, but I shouldn't be banned from an area because others are drinking.

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