Question about TX
This is a discussion on Question about TX within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I see from Handgunlaw.us that it is illegal to carry into an establishment that generates 51% of it's income from the sale of alcohol for ...
August 31st, 2008 01:26 AM
Question about TX
I see from Handgunlaw.us that it is illegal to carry into an establishment that generates 51% of it's income from the sale of alcohol for on premise consumption.
I don't drink while I'm armed, and if I choose to drink, I'll leave the firearm at home.
My question is, how is it determined that 51% or more of the income is from alcohol? I mean, I would imagine that it would not be allowable to carry into an actual bar or saloon, but what about a place like Applebees? Can I eat at the restaurant? Can I sit in the "bar" area of the restaurant?
Can someone help me out here?
And can anyone let me know what else I need to be aware of in TX?
Firefighter / EMT - Always Ready. Ever Willing.
~Never do anything that you don't want to have to explain to the paramedics...~
August 31st, 2008 01:26 AM
August 31st, 2008 05:46 AM
Here's the link to the statutes: http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/adminis.../chlsindex.htm
They're required to post this sign:
If it's a restaurant, you can sit in the bar area, unless the bar itself is posted 51%, as some do when it's a separate room. Just be aware and keep an eye out for the signs.
"We're paratroopers. We're supposed to be surrounded!" Dick Winters
August 31st, 2008 07:47 AM
The alcohol license they are issued IIRC is in red if it's a 51% establishment and blue if it's not.If you walk into a pizza joint that sells beer there is a very good chance they do not make 51% of their sales from alcohol so you can carry there,I believe it is about onsite consumption so a liquor store would be legit
Last edited by dukalmighty; August 31st, 2008 at 09:01 AM.
"Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
--Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .
August 31st, 2008 01:23 PM
I believe whether a location is 51% or not is determined by the liquor license they have. IIRC, the licenses are tiered for the amount of income that comes from the sale of alcohol.
August 31st, 2008 01:31 PM
I can see their point about the booze thing but I disagree in the way they handle it. I think it shouldn't matter where you carry in respect to the booze - but instead have it same as it is for Blood Acohol level for driving - point whatever because I don't drink and there must be others who don't that might be in a place where they serve it but my judgement would not be affected by that.
For God, Family and Country!
August 31st, 2008 05:43 PM
remember this, there are 3 signs:
the Red 51% sign that rodc13 posted above means no carry in the building period (in the particular room is divided area);
then there is the NOTICE signs, these are posted at places like Applebee's that sell alcohol for on-premesis consumption but they do not derive 51% or more profit from alcohol sales, these are welcome signs for CHLs, they simply say that it is a felony for anyone that does not have a license to carry a handgun on the premesis;
and lastly there are WARNING signs posted at places that sell alcohol but NOT for on-premesis consumption (walmart, convenience stores, liquo stores), they simply state that it is a misdemeanor to consume alcohol on their premesis, perfectly legal for CHLs to carry there
you can sit in the bar area of restaurants if they are not 51% places
as for how places know whether they are 51% or not, I would assume that is known by what type of establishmet they are going to be (more of a bar than eating, or more eating than bar), If I find exact info on this licensing/signage process I'll update.
remember, its illegal for CHLs to become intoxicated while carrying, and intoxicated means having alcohol level of .08 or higher OR loss of physical or mental capacities
Certified Glock Armorer
not enough space for list, main gear: duty-G17, S&W 642 bug, 870, RRA AR-15; G30 off-duty
Independence is declared; it must be maintained. Sam Houston-3/2/1836
If loose gun laws are good for criminals why do criminals support gun control?
August 31st, 2008 05:54 PM
This 51 stuff is tricky. As I understand it they are supposed to post a sign. BUT, here's the trick. Even if no sign is posted, you are in violation of the law if the establishment in fact has 51% of their sales from liquor. That is screwy, but that is the law.
Best bet, stay out of places where liquor is being sold by the drink; or ask the owner if you are unsure. You could call ahead.
Frankly, though it is in part my own lifestyle and choice, I have never ever been in a place where a 51 sign was posted. I have been in many places where a sign stating that, " the unlicensed possession of a firearm is prohibited." This is different than a 51, and clearly if you are licensed you can enter.
Part of situational awareness is checking out the signs before entering, and remaining aware that there is a 51 trap that you might fall into if not cautious.
August 31st, 2008 06:25 PM
It's true regarding the color of the signs. Liquor licenses in red are issued to establishments that exceed the 51% limit. Other liquor licenses are blue. The basic concept is that if it's a bar, it's a 51% establishment, no carry. Almost no restaurants fail into the 51% category, so carry is allowed. The bar portion of a restaurant would not be off limits, unless it's separated from the main part of the restaurant and posted 51%.
As far as the 51% sign not being posted. That put's the establishment in violation of the law. You would only be considered in violation if you remained there once you determined it was a 51% establishment.
We tell CHL students: "If it looks like a bar, sounds like a bar, smells like a bar and everyone's drinking... it's a BAR, don't carry" and "If you could take your kids and mother there for dinner, it's a restaurant, don't worry, you're OK."
"Texas can make it without the United States, but the United States can't make it without Texas!".... Sam Houston
NRA Life Member
August 31st, 2008 06:53 PM
also,firefighter be aware in Texas concealed means concealed. there is no open carry in TX.
"Speech is a river. Silence is an ocean,"Rumi -- an ancient Persian poet (1207 - 1273)
August 31st, 2008 06:59 PM
Applebees bread & butter is Food.
When I carry I don't drink at all either...Designated Driver & CCW for the night...My wife and daughter has their CHL.
Originally Posted by firefighter4884
August 31st, 2008 07:16 PM
Yes, you need to be familiar with this!
Originally Posted by firefighter4884
August 31st, 2008 08:35 PM
I have a weekly gathering with a bunch of friends at a 100% bar. They sell nothing in the establishment except alcohol. Sheldon does not have a 51% sign posted in his bar... but I ain't foolish enough to think I can carry there once I get my permit... I don't think the cigarette machine or the jukebox (neither of which are ever used) contribute enough to his income to get him below 51%.
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes
The will to win is worthless if you do not have the will to prepare. -Thane Yost
August 31st, 2008 08:58 PM
The restaurant at the end of my street was OK, then had a "51%" sign for a time, but now it's gone again. I guess it's determined by the primary source of revenue as reported. As I understand it, a bar (even with a full menu) generates over 50% (thus, "51%") income from alcohol sales while a restaurant (even with a liquor license) generates over 50% of it's income from food sales. I suppose there has to be a dividing line somewhere; that's as good as any. This may not be a precise, legal explanation, but it does explain why some popular places can bounce back and forth.
Some places also have the bar area separate from the dining area, presumably allowing "both" to co-exist since the "51%" sign is on the door between them. I assume that each "half" keeps their own books?? (Personally, that's splitting hairs too thin for me - I just don't go there.)
An establishment that is strictly a bar, on the other hand, apparently needs no such posting because there is no misunderstanding of it's primary source of revenue.
Hope this helps.
By NCConcealed in forum Defensive Carry Guns
Last Post: July 4th, 2009, 11:15 PM
By ripntear in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
Last Post: September 3rd, 2008, 06:23 PM