A Rude Pro 2nd Amendment Supporter Harassed My Daughter
This is a discussion on A Rude Pro 2nd Amendment Supporter Harassed My Daughter within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; ""The loss of that $800 sale is insignificant to the people they are trying to make their point to.""
So true. An $800 dollar loss ...
September 2nd, 2008 11:10 AM
""The loss of that $800 sale is insignificant to the people they are trying to make their point to.""
So true. An $800 dollar loss to a large chain, whose quarterly figures are in the millions or even billions, has as much significance to that company's CEO as a single crumb on his plate when the toast is gone.
September 2nd, 2008 11:10 AM
September 2nd, 2008 11:23 AM
Gotta agree w/ Boscobeans here
These people were NOT 2A supporters! They were simply jerks. If you feel that strongly about gun rights, why go into the store at all after you've sen the sign? And if you DO go in, why would you not ask to speak to a responsible person (owner, manager, etc.) right up front?
This guys is just a putz who was yanking the girl's chain because he could. And I'd wager that if the salesperson appeared to be physically capable of picking him up & tossing him out the door, he'd have behaved differently.
Also, leave your personal psychobabble BS @ home. Unless you're real close to my Dad, you aren't gonna know him better than I....
September 2nd, 2008 11:38 AM
I don't know if rude is the right word for this couple but [Edited] is. If they saw the sign when they walked in, which evidently they did, and said nothing for an hour then complained about it they are the exact type that gives antis a bad tast for gun owners.
What ever their reasoning was they were pure donkeys about it and did nothing to promote 2A. If they had made their point before wasting an hour of the clerk's time then the point would have been made. However they chose to aggravate the clerk and possibly management by what they did. If I were a store owner and someone did that I would tell them I appreciate you thought but don't come back. While I am wasting my time on your protest I could be taking care of my other customers. Think if you were a real estate agent and rode a couple all over town for a whole weekend. After you showed them 10 houses they said "Thank you, we're not planning on buying rather we just like to look at new houses".
If they had said that we are not ready to buy or something similar then that is one thing but to place the blame for a no guns sign on a clerk does nothing to promote 2A. I think the manager should put a legal sign up and the next time he walks in then have his butt arrested.
Last edited by Captain Crunch; September 2nd, 2008 at 12:37 PM.
Reason: Deleted a language workaround.
September 2nd, 2008 12:18 PM
I have seen people here (and on other gun forums) advocate just exactly this tactic. I don't agree with it.
I do believe Mr and Mrs X should have or certainly could have told whomever was there (Daughter) that they were leaving and why but should have done so immediately since they saw the sign and had made up their minds already not to do business there. I would think that even entering should have been avoided. But if one wanted to make it known He/She would ask for the manager. And if He/She was not available then tell the representative (who by default is Managing) why they are leaving.
But this tactic of wasting time and not buying has been advocated here before and some think its helpful. I do not.
September 2nd, 2008 12:22 PM
I guess I am not following some of the posts on this one.
The sign was on the outside of the building. They had to see it on the way in. It wasn't on the cash register when the sale was nearly complete.
Most shops have the price of the frames on them in the display, if not they will tell you when you ask, what is the price of this one. They will also tell you how much the lenses are for those frames. So sticker shock should not be an issue when it is time to pay. Do you all go and get the paperwork filled out for your gun purchases without knowing the price. I think not.
Why would they have brought up the girls father, the OP, if they weren't trying to make a specific point on the matter. Then tell her that they would think about the purchase and let her know, (did she hear back from them, I doubt it) after she offered that they talk to the manager who wasn't there that day about the policy.
I understand why the daughter went to the OP's house after work that day. He is pro gun, she is trying to understand their mindset. If they people would have been dressed in all black with dark makeup, or whatever she probably would be asking someone she knew that was goth what was wrong with them.
They did nothing to support the 2A or change the OP's daughters mind about carrying, they did nothing to change the store policy, since they weren't willing to contact a person capable of changing the policy. They probably did, laugh all the way home and feel good about acting like 7th graders.
I am glad some of us see it this way.
Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
Texas CHL Instructor
Texas Hunter Education Instructor
September 2nd, 2008 12:31 PM
Originally Posted by Dgydad
If they had not already, this is where they stepped over the line.
September 2nd, 2008 12:43 PM
"David in FL" hit the nose on the head.
It is a shame to waste the sales person's time but now she knows that she lost out on an $800 sale. If Mr. and Mrs. X hadn't come in because of the sign, the seller would not know what he or she is missing out on.
Oh yea, btw: How many glasses was he getting for $800?
September 2nd, 2008 01:30 PM
I think your daughter is paying the price of working for someone who does not support the 2nd Amendment, so, boo hoo for her.
Originally Posted by waynesan
She should find another job, not supporting someone who would disarm us and leave us helpless prey.
September 2nd, 2008 01:47 PM
That is the big thing, they did nothing to promote 2A but rather turn people away from it. If this is the way gun owners act then keep them out. They did nothing to indicate that they were actually going to buy anything. In fact they just showed that they had not intentions of doing anything but causing trouble especially when they brought her father into it.
They did nothing to support the 2A or change the OP's daughters mind about carrying, they did nothing to change the store policy, since they weren't willing to contact a person capable of changing the policy.
They probably did, laugh all the way home and feel good about acting like 7th graders.
If someone really goes to all the trouble of picking out something and waiting until it is rung up to start their protest do you really think they would have bought it if you didn't have the sign?
Take Kerbouchard's tactic of shopping. Was he really going to buy? If the store didn't have the sign he probably wouldn't even have gone in. The store didn't lose a sale just the time of messing with him. It does cost them something but not sales when you use that tatic.
September 2nd, 2008 01:54 PM
""She should find another job.""
I guess you have never or will never do business with, be employed by, read or watch anything made by or produced by any of the following companies, actor, writers or others on this list...
NRA-ILA :: Fact Sheets
If so, you are a better man than I.
September 2nd, 2008 01:57 PM
Hummm...I guess you are suggesting that every person that works on a government (city, state, nation) establishment, amusement parks, eating and drinking esblishments etc etc should find another job??? This is in my reality check department...
Originally Posted by bae
Besides...this particular establishment did NOT "disarm" you and leave you as a "helpless prey"...one just has the choice not to go there.
September 2nd, 2008 02:05 PM
I don't go shopping for fun. If I show up somewhere I have the intention of buying.
Originally Posted by FN1910
My wife and I did do this at a car dealership. We had the pre-approved check in our pocket and had them draw up most of the paperwork before we left. We went next door and bought a new car.(we ended up getting a better deal anyway)
Last time I drove by, the sign was gone.
September 2nd, 2008 02:14 PM
I agree with the notion of protest but not how it was carried out. If they saw the sign coming in, that's when it should have become an issue. If they're really that passionate about it, then don't need an hour selecting frames to "stew" over it. Their mind is made up. Now my other thought was they could have been on the fence, but then just didn't like his daughter's response about keeping thugs with guns out. She was making light of his question, probably thinking quick after his comment caught her off guard, but they may have misinterpreted it as a glib or flippant remark. Or could their perhaps be another sign near the front desk or cashier, and they missed the initial one coming into the store? Who knows what their thinking was, as a devil's advocate I could come up with a lot of excuses for their behavior, weak though I think they may be. Regardless, I think they handled it poorly.
But as someone else said, $800 is nothing to this store or chain -- the only person who was hurt by the loss of the sale was the OP's daughter. They certainly could have made their protest in a more constructive manner, as it is they've just alienated themselves and their cause by coming across as "just another gun nut." Such behavior hurts us all, IMO. They can be their cause's own worst enemy, much the same as with over-zealous evangelists of other ideologies.
The OP said two pair, which is not unreasonable. The wife and I got ours at the same time last year, and I remember they were over $300 each (high-end lenses but not top-of-the-line, and only mid-range frames). I suppose part of the reason is because it's inside the eye doctor's practice (we're talking a group practice of several opthamalogists and optometrists -- not your dept. store optometrist-of-the-month variety). We've had not so great luck with such large chain eyeglasses, and gladly pay more for the quality and support we get from this doctor's office.
Originally Posted by ruertar
September 2nd, 2008 02:39 PM
In Florida that signs is worthless, and I'd pay no attention to it.
I'll also have to agree with Dave. In Florida about 4% of us have CCL permits, If Tennessee has the same percent of it's citizens having a CCL then banishing that large of a population from entering there store is ludicrous.
But, that's not up to your daughter or even the local manager, and instead of wasting your daughters time, if Mr X felt so strongly about his views of CCL, he should of shopped elsewhere. And for that reason I also agree with "Farronwolf" regarding Mr X lowering the average citizens views of us CCL holders.
September 2nd, 2008 02:48 PM
It's really not a question of whether they lost an actual sale. It's a question of what they think they lost, or will lose. As it appears in the instance Kerbouchard has described, the tactic was, in fact, effective. Signs are gone.
Originally Posted by FN1910
As I mentioned in my first post on this thread, I don't advocate doing something like this very often, if ever. It may have been done poorly in this instance. But a business is most attuned to financial considerations. A threat to the bottom line may cause a business to reconsider an offensive policy. After all, the attitude of the clerk is "What's the matter with you gun people?"
What if 10 couples went into this business in a single day, and showed them receipts where they had spent $800 each at a competitor's business? Would that make a difference?
At any rate, I hope this incident started a meaningful conversation between the OP and his daughter, who, at age 26,
If she gets some education and begins to develop a healthy interest in the important issues of the day (as well as her own self-preservation), maybe she'll make a difference.
. . . is about as unpolitical as one can be. She has absolutely no interest in politics and no interest in guns or 2nd Amendment issues and has no opinion, one way or another, on what the laws or store rules should be.
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