What would you have done?

This is a discussion on What would you have done? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Its a gun for gods sake. What is the big deal? It is a tool we all choose to use and carry daily, there should ...

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Thread: What would you have done?

  1. #31
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    Its a gun for gods sake. What is the big deal? It is a tool we all choose to use and carry daily, there should be no alarm or police calling or teaching the guy a lesson or whatever.

    You either leave it alone, or put it in a more secure place in the vehicle, glove box, trunk, console. Yes, you can pick it up, if your a mechanic, you have plenty of shop towels around so you don't get your finger prints on the thing for petes sake.

    If you move it, when the guy picks his car up you tell him where you moved it to. End of story.

    When did it become our responsibility to police the rest of the world for something that is probably not even illegal. Maybe it wasn't smart to leave it under the seat, but we all do things on occasion that others think aren't particularly smart.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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  3. #32
    Member Array Tye_Defender's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ram Rod View Post
    No, actually I'm not. Some folks need to learn, and obviously some of them need to learn the hard way. An unattended weapon is a risk to the public. Most are thinking it's a slight bit irresponsible. Now you can obviously see the differences in our thinking. No joke.
    An unattended tire-iron is a danger to the public as well, so maybe locked in the trunk with the tire iron is a good plan.

  4. #33
    Senior Member Array BkCo1's Avatar
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    I am with Hotguns. Leave it alone. Only move it if it is in your way while doing the work. When finished put it back. It is not your property. It is also none of your business how customers store there property. Moving it and not putting it back could have bad results. Loss of bond or insurance.

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  5. #34
    VIP Member Array Kerbouchard's Avatar
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    It's his property, his car, and none of your business.
    There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other is wrong, but the middle is always evil.

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  6. #35
    Member Array dmorris68's Avatar
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    While I agree that an LEO shouldn't be called unless you have other undeniable suspicions, I'm on the fence as to whether it should be secured. I tend to say yes, you should lock it in the trunk, for a couple of reasons:
    1. While some of you may live in an area that is entirely pro-gun, or where almost everybody carries guns in their cars, etc., that isn't the case everywhere. Even if it is the case in a given scenario, if you have any goofballs or "questionable" personalities working in your shop (as was said, nearly all have them), or perhaps any immature teenager types like the owner's son or a part-timer, then I believe you have a responsibility to ensure the safety of both yourself and those employees and customers around the shop.
    2. As someone said, a lot of times these shops leave vehicles parked unattended in the lot. If someone were to break in (or open an unlocked door), find the weapon and steal it, then use it to hurt an innocent victim, would you want that on your head? Even if you weren't criminally liable, you could be sued. Even if you never mentioned that you knew it was there, and avoided any legal liability, it would still be on your *conscience* to know that if you had just taken the step of locking it up, a tragedy could have been avoided.

    Personally, the weight of those two "what-if" scenarios would override any concern over touching a customer's property. I just can't help but think it a bit naive to consider a loaded gun as no different than a GPS or other benign property. If that were the case, you wouldn't be securing your loaded guns at home around your small children, right? At least I hope you're doing that.

    So I think I'd have to secure the weapon, then take the owner aside and quietly let him know that I secured his weapon for the safety of yourself, your shop, and the public, as well as for the owner's own liability. I think most would appreciate it, especially if you didn't chastise or preach to them about it. Most responsible gun owners would be embarrassed enough by such a faux pas as to consider even the friendly comment to be a veiled condemnation (I know I would). If the owner was irresponsible and wanted to get angry about it, screw 'em -- safety and my conscience are more important. They should be thankful the person who found it was pro-gun and looking out for them, because imagine what would happen if the mechanic was a paying member of the Brady Bunch!
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  7. #36
    Senior Member Array preachertim's Avatar
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    I am with hot guns on this one leave it alone!
    Why Would A Preacher ever need a Gun? Its Not for the Sheep , its for the Wolves!

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  8. #37
    Senior Member Array rolyat63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SDM View Post
    I don't think it's the same as a GPS in the sense that a handgun requires a higher level of responsibility. Is leaving it under the seat of a car when said car is not in your possession responsible?
    I agree that the owner turned his vehicle over to the shop and had a reasonable expectation that his belongings were secure. Most here can seem to "sense" the danger of a firearm but in our myopic view we don't realize what can be really dangerous. Like SIXTO said, the gun is a high value item (dangerous in the wrong hands) and like another said the tire iron is also dangerous. In SIXTOs scenario the most dangerous item IS the GPS. Depending on the model it could be very dangerous. It can range from BGs in the desert using it for navigation or making a homemade cruise missile. Certainly, the firearm has more urgent danger but the GPS could be more dangerous if in the wrong hands and exported. Most you see aren't a problem but the Dpet of Commerce mus make that call when exporting. See ITAR regs below.

    So, if it were me I'd leave it alone. Make sure THAT vehicle gets locked when the work is done.

    Excerpted International Traffic in Arms (ITAR) Regulation
    (c) Global Positioning System (GPS) receiving equipment specifically designed, modified or configured for military use; or GPS receiving equipment with any of the following characteristics:

    (1) Designed for encryption or decryption (e.g., Y-Code) of GPS precise positioning service (PPS) signals;

    (2) Designed for producing navigation results above 60,000 feet altitude and at 1,000 knots velocity or greater;

    (3) Specifically designed or modified for use with a null steering antenna or including a null steering antenna designed to reduce or avoid jamming signals;

    (4) Designed or modified for use with unmanned air vehicle systems capable of delivering at least a 500 kg payload to a range of at least 300 km.

    Note: GPS receivers designed or modified for use with military unmanned air vehicle systems with less capability are considered to be specifically designed, modified or configured for military use and therefore covered under this subparagraph.

    Any GPS equipment not meeting this definition is subject to the jurisdiction of the Department of Commerce (DOC). Manufacturers or exporters of equipment under DOC jurisdiction are advised that the U.S. Government does not assure the availability of the GPS P-Code for civil navigation. It is the policy of the Department of Defense (DOD) that GPS receivers using P-Code without clarification as to whether or not those receivers were designed or modified to use Y-Code will be presumed to be Y-Code capable and covered under this subparagraph. The DOD policy further requires that a notice be attached to all P-Code receivers presented for export. The notice must state the following: "ADVISORY NOTICE: This receiver uses the GPS P-Code signal, which by U.S. policy, may be switched off without notice."
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  9. #38
    Member Array calmp9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by V8 View Post
    I"ll start off by saying that I am a manager/lead Tech at a automotive repair shop.
    So today I was working on a first time customers car. The type of repair, required the removal of a lower cover of the dash panel. To access the panel you must move the seat back as far as possible and lay on the floorboard.
    You probably guessed it by now I'm sure, but I'll tell you anyway, there was a holstered weapon under the seat. At first I thought, what idiot leaves a gun in his car knowing that someone (that he dose not know) will be working on it. Remember this car and customer has never been at our shop before. I have no idea who he is and he has know idea how many people and what type of people will be in his car.
    So I started thinking, what should I do? Should I lock it in the trunk? Should I leave it there and not say anything. Or, should I talk to the customer when he picks up his car and tell him to remove his weapon from the car the next time he brings it in? I mean he is welcome to carry at the shop but leaving a gun in a car seems to be very irresponsible and foolish, and to be honest I don't want to be responsible for it.
    So what would you have done?
    First of all, the owner is very fortunate that you were the one working on his vehicle. I would call him and tell him that you found his handgun and that you are securing it for him. He's going to feel bad and he should.
    "[A]rms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. . . Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them."

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  10. #39
    VIP Member Array HKinNY's Avatar
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    Early 1990 I opened a trunk of a customers car after installing a hitch to install wiring for trailer light plug so he could tow a trailer back home. Sitting in the trunk area is a nickle plated 9mm in a holster. Figuring it was a BB gun I picked it up to move it out of my way. Sure enough it is real, heavy and fully loaded. So I placed it in the bottom of his golf bag. After showing him how to use the hitch,ball and lights I asked him if he noticed and thing missing. NOPE Everythings here. Thanks me and he goes to leave. Sir I just want you to know that I placed your 9 mm in the bottom of your gold bag. Oh! I forgot it was there, I have so many guns I usally mis-place some.

    Should I kept in with me in the front of the car?

    Sure, If you want to get arrested and sentenced for 1 year for carrying a illegal gun. Leave it in the trunk until you get home.

    If the trunk of the vehicle was secure and the owner seamed half way decent. Not a stick-up guy. I would inform customer bad thing to do.

  11. #40
    Senior Member Array Free American's Avatar
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    The owner of the shop has a responsibility to his employees to protect them from themselves. Think about it, if you don't wear your safety gear, he pays the OSHA fines. I feel this situation falls into the same type of category. As lead tech I assume you preform some supervisory/management type functions and are the owners/managers representative for certain functions? Therefore you have a responsibility to keep your less mature co-workers from being stupid, on the owner's behalf. Although we all look at a gun as a high dollar tool, others look at it as a dangerous item. If one of your less than stellar co-workers were to come across it and hurt themselves or others the owner could be held liable due to your inaction. I realize this sounds like babysitting, but think about the court system (civil) today and believe that you and the owner would be defendants in the law suit.

    ETA: So secure the weapon and inform the owner that you have done so.
    Last edited by Free American; September 3rd, 2008 at 03:01 PM. Reason: ETA
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  12. #41
    Senior Member Array Ragin Cajun's Avatar
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    Personally I would moved it out of the way and kept working. A lot of people with and without permits leave a gun in their car. It's not the way I operate but a lot of people do. If there was no place to safely move it out of the way too then I would have locked it in the trunk and told the owner that I had moved it.

  13. #42
    Member Array mousehunter's Avatar
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    At most I would have called the owner and see if they wanted to come pick it up, or if they would want to you lock it in the trunk.

  14. #43
    Senior Member Array PaulG's Avatar
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    My turn.

    I have run my own business for quite a few years now.

    Customer service is very important to me.

    I would decide if the gun in its current location was accessable to anyone who I didn't know for sure would be safe around firearms.

    If so, I would secure it.

    Next, I would call the customer.

    I don't feel any need to teach him a lesson. We ALL make mistakes.
    fortiter in re, suaviter in modo (resolutely in action, gently in manner).

  15. #44
    Member Array aphophas's Avatar
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    Probably converse with the customer. But, most likely just leave it alone and say nothing..
    "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes."
    --Thomas Jefferson


  16. #45
    Member Array Electraclyde's Avatar
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    I would leave it alone. Only problem I see is someone that does not have a CCW could not / should not road test this vehicle unless gun is unloaded and locked in trunk. I worked in an Auto dealer for about 10 years. One of my responsibilities was to appraise vehicles for trade-in. This always involved a short road test. We always checked the glove box/console for info about maintenance, past history of repeat repairs, etc, etc. Lost count of the number of times a loaded pistol was found in the glove box. Never gave it much thought at the time (even thou I did not have a CCW), just laid the gun on the seat until I finished my search and then carefully placed the gun back where I found it. (carefully wiping my prints off of it, just in case) This was 20+ years ago when concealed carry permits here in Mich were very difficult to obtain. Most of these gun owners that were careless probably did not possess permits themselves.

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