September 9th, 2008 12:24 AM
Colorado Questions from New CO Resident
I have two questions I've found little or no guidance or elaboration on for Colorado CWP Holders:
First, is there a Colorado State Statute, Regulation or Ruling that requires a CWP Holder to affirmatively present the CWP to a LEO during any official contact (e.g. a trafiic stop, etc.)?
As a practical matter, I personally would generally do so for reasons beyond the question presented, I am just curious about the actual rules and regs.
Secondly, I found this on the NRA-ILA Colorado summary:
"It is unlawful to possess a firearm while under the influence of alcohol or controlled substances."
I could find this nowhere. I don't want to debate the merits of CC after a sip of wine, but I am totally curious what the above means. Does it mean there is a "Zero-Tolerance" policy on BAT, like say, .000001, or is it the legal limit for DUI?
Can anyone provide any authoritative guidance to a Colorado FNG? A simple explanation?
September 9th, 2008 12:41 AM
"First, is there a Colorado State Statute, Regulation or Ruling that requires a CWP Holder to affirmatively present the CWP to a LEO during any official contact (e.g. a trafiic stop, etc.)?"
We were told in our CCW course that there's no law requiring presentation of your permit when stopped. It's up to your discretion.
Regarding the alcohol... I have no idea what the legal status is.
September 9th, 2008 12:57 AM
The Colorado laws are shown on the Rocky Mountain Gun Owners website,
RMGO.org. In short, the law requires you to present your permit on demand. Voluntary presentation would be up to you. As for alcohol, I haven't seen legal status spelled out. I personally play it exceedingly safe with regards to drinking while armed.
September 9th, 2008 02:39 AM
Unlike some states, Colo has no statutes baring persons from carrying in places dispensing alcoholic beverages. You can also drink while carrying. I think the motor vehicle BAC thresholds apply for CCWing.
The link to RMGO is a good one. You s/b able to find out for sure.
If you can't find it, email RMGO. They will reply to you quickly.
An armed populace are called citizens.
An unarmed populace are called subjects.
September 9th, 2008 11:22 AM
I took my CCW course from a law enforcement officer and he said that the alcohol issue has no set sobriety standard so CCW holders should use extreme caution. It is a subjective call by the LEO. Add to this the existing two CO laws - DUI (.08) and DWAI (.05), and you have a good reason to not mix carrying with drinking.
A veteran, whether active duty, retired, national guard or reserve is someone who, at one point in his/her life, wrote a blank check made payable
to "The United States of America" for an amount of "up to and including my life." Author unknown
September 9th, 2008 11:50 AM
I just attended a class that had a lawyer speak for about 2 hours on CC who handles mostly 2A cases. There are only 3 things you have to present by law to a cop in CO. 1) driver's licence 2)Registration, 3) proof of insurance. He said for anything else, you don't have to answer on a traffic stop. If they ask "You have a gun in your vehicle?" you don't have to answer according to the lawyer. They can only search your car if they have probable cause. They can only legally ask to search your car after they have given you your driver's licence back and told you that you are free to go. If you tell them no, you can not at that point, then they cannot legally do so.
With the lawyer talk, your getting it as hear say from me so I would look into it all before doing any of it for yourself. Personally, I always offer up that I'm carrying and I have not had a single problem yet by doing so. I don't feel like the lawyer's suggestions are going to get me anywhere on the side of the road. It may keep me from giving up any of my rights but I don't mind that if it keeps everything at a comfortable level and then I'm on my way again.
He did say that the police are allowed to ask pretty much what ever they want. If you choose to give up your rights and answer, it up to you.
There is a specific alcohol breath legal level for CCW which is less then the legal amount to drive. That I know for sure but I don't remember exactly what it is. If I want to go out and have a drink, I leave the gun at home. I sometimes will have a beer or two while at home and carrying but if I do, I know I'm not going anywhere.
September 9th, 2008 01:47 PM
I guess the lawyer who spoke to you is technically correct in that after being charged with failure to present your permit to carry on demand, the charge can be dismissed if you present your permit to the court. Still seems to me that the wise thing to do would be to simply show your permit to the officer at his/her request. I've copied the section which applies below.
Originally Posted by Ragin Cajun
TO SECTION 18-12-207.
18-12-204. Permit contents - validity - carrying requirements.
(1) (a) EACH PERMIT SHALL BEAR A COLOR PHOTOGRAPH OF THE PERMITTEE
AND SHALL DISPLAY THE SIGNATURE OF THE SHERIFF WHO ISSUES THE
PERMIT. IN ADDITION, THE SHERIFFS OF THIS STATE SHALL ENSURE THAT ALL
PERMITS ISSUED PURSUANT TO THIS PART 2 CONTAIN THE SAME ITEMS OF
INFORMATION AND ARE THE SAME SIZE AND THE SAME COLOR.
(b) A PERMIT IS VALID FOR A PERIOD OF FIVE YEARS AFTER THE DATE
OF ISSUANCE AND MAY BE RENEWED AS PROVIDED IN SECTION 18-12-211. A
PERMIT ISSUED PURSUANT TO THIS PART 2, INCLUDING A TEMPORARY
PAGE 8-SENATE BILL 03-024
EMERGENCY PERMIT ISSUED PURSUANT TO SECTION 18-12-209, IS EFFECTIVE
IN ALL AREAS OF THE STATE, EXCEPT AS OTHERWISE PROVIDED IN SECTION
(2) (a) A PERMITTEE, IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE TERMS OF A PERMIT,
MAY CARRY A CONCEALED HANDGUN AS ALLOWED BY STATE LAW. THE
PERMITTEE SHALL CARRY THE PERMIT, TOGETHER WITH VALID PHOTO
IDENTIFICATION, AT ALL TIMES DURING WHICH THE PERMITTEE IS IN ACTUAL
POSSESSION OF A CONCEALED HANDGUN AND SHALL PRODUCE BOTH
DOCUMENTS UPON DEMAND BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER. FAILURE TO
PRODUCE A PERMIT UPON DEMAND BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER RAISES
A REBUTTABLE PRESUMPTION THAT THE PERSON DOES NOT HAVE A PERMIT.
FAILURE TO CARRY AND PRODUCE A PERMIT AND VALID PHOTO
IDENTIFICATION UPON DEMAND AS REQUIRED IN THIS SUBSECTION (2) IS A
CLASS 1 PETTY OFFENSE. A CHARGE OF FAILURE TO CARRY AND PRODUCE A
PERMIT AND VALID PHOTO IDENTIFICATION UPON DEMAND PURSUANT TO THIS
SUBSECTION (2) SHALL BE DISMISSED BY THE COURT IF, AT OR BEFORE THE
PERMITTEE'S SCHEDULED COURT APPEARANCE, THE PERMITTEE EXHIBITS TO
THE COURT A VALID PERMIT AND VALID PHOTO IDENTIFICATION, BOTH OF
WHICH WERE ISSUED TO THE PERMITTEE PRIOR TO THE DATE ON WHICH THE
PERMITTEE WAS CHARGED WITH FAILURE TO CARRY AND PRODUCE A PERMIT
AND VALID PHOTO IDENTIFICATION UPON DEMAND
September 9th, 2008 04:01 PM
I have read, and was told by a criminal defense attorney in the class I took that there is no bac level defined for carrying a gun. He said, basically, if you are carrying and take one drink of beer you can be arrested and will lose your carry permit.
Of course this all depends on the law enforcement in your area.
For me, I will stick to
September 9th, 2008 09:48 PM
The law has omitted the BAC for CCW on purpose. It's a judgement call on the LEO's behalf. If your judgement is impared and you are carrying a firearm you are in violation of the law. That amount if different for everyone. They could do the same thing for driving. If you seem un-fit to drive but your bac is less than state standards, bad things are going to happen.
Word to the wise is to stay well under the DUI level and don't drive either. A car driven by an intoxicated driver is just another weapon.
Good site for CO info.
CSSA.org - Colorado State Shooting Association: News
I recently was issued a concealed weapons permit, and I was wondering if there is any law regarding the use of alcohol and the carrying of a concealed weapon? Having read through the "shall issue" law more than once I know there is no reference to this, and I am concerned that if I go out to dinner and consume a beer, I may be braking the law and jeopardizing my permit? Should it be safe to assume that other laws pertaining to the use of alcohol and deadly weapons, such as a motor vehicle, may apply? I know that above all else common sense should prevail, however I think some laws go beyond what is reasonable and proper.
Thank you for your input and thoughts.
Mike in Golden
It is a crime (class two misdemeanor) to possess a firearm while intoxicated. A
lthough not clearly defined, most courts have held that "intoxicated" means about the same as "under the influence," which means that your mental and physical abilities are substantially impaired by the consumption of alcohol (or any other drug for that matter). It is not illegal to merely possess or consume alcohol while in possession of a firearm, concealed or not, provided you are not drunk.
Having established the above, I personally believe it is a very bad idea to consume alcohol when in possession of a firearm, period. I make it a personal rule never to drink when I am carrying, regardless of the circumstances. Studies show that consumption of more than one alcoholic beverage over time, even if you do not become intoxicated, adversely affects your judgment, reactions/reflexes and motor skills. In light of that info, there is really no reason why you should drink at all if you are in an environment where you think you may need to defend yourself with a firearm. From a purely legal standpoint, should the need arise to use your firearm, your legal grounds/justification could be seriously affected if there is evidence you had been drinking.
Firearms instructors and shooting ranges universally ban alcohol from their shooting activities/premises--with good reason. There is absolutely nothing wrong with enjoying a fine adult beverage AFTER concluding an afternoon of shooting fun once the guns have been put safely away. Guns and alcohol do not mix, and it is a very good idea to always avoid combining the two.
September 10th, 2008 12:36 AM
Looks like a csh script!!
Originally Posted by isuace
alcohol = 0.0;
protection = TRUE;
alcohol > 0.08;
protection = FALSE;
September 10th, 2008 01:04 AM
Originally Posted by Rock and Glock
JUST FYI, here is a list I compiled of the states which have a "duty to notify if armed" law:
Just use this as a helpful guideline. Please be sure to check the relevant state laws before traveling.
Or, memorize them to help win a bet at the gunclub.
September 10th, 2008 10:51 PM
Thanks for all of the great responses on both of my questions!
Here's what I got from the NRA-ILA:
This should help:
18-12-106. Prohibited use of weapons.
(1) A person commits a class 2 misdemeanor if.............................
(d) The person has in his or her possession a firearm while the person is under the influence of intoxicating liquor or of a controlled substance, as defined in section 12-22-303 (7), C.R.S. Possession of a permit issued under section 18-12-105.1, as it existed prior to its repeal, or possession of a permit or a temporary emergency permit issued pursuant to part 2 of this article is no defense to a violation of this subsection (1).
definitions controlled substances
7) "Controlled substance" shall have the same meaning as in section 18-18-102 (5), C.R.S.
(7.5) (a) "Controlled substance analog" means a substance the chemical structure of which is substantially similar to the chemical structure of a controlled substance in schedule I or II and:
(I) Which has a stimulant, depressant, or hallucinogenic effect on the central nervous system substantially similar to the stimulant, depressant, or hallucinogenic effect on the central nervous system of a controlled substance included in schedule I or II; or
(II) With respect to a particular individual, which that individual represents or intends to have a stimulant, depressant, or hallucinogenic effect on the central nervous system substantially similar to the stimulant, depressant, or hallucinogenic effect on the central nervous system of a controlled substance included in schedule I or II.
(b) "Controlled substance analog" does not include:
(I) A controlled substance;
(II) Any substance for which there is an approved new drug application;
(III) With respect to a particular person, any substance, if an exemption is in effect for investigational use, for that person, under section 505 of the "Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act", 21 U.S.C. sec. 355, as amended, to the extent that conduct with respect to the substance is pursuant to the exemption; or
(IV) Any substance to the extent not intended for human consumption before such an exemption takes effect with respect to the substance.
intoxication definition: 18-1-804. Intoxication.
(4) "Intoxication", as used in this section means a disturbance of mental or physical capacities resulting from the introduction of any substance into the body.
(5) "Self-induced intoxication" means intoxication caused by substances which the defendant knows or ought to know have the tendency to cause intoxication and which he knowingly introduced or allowed to be introduced into his body, unless they were introduced pursuant to medical advice or under circumstances that would afford a defense to a charge of crime.
Found this illuminating. I guess no sip of wine while packing. That's OK.
I'll post the response from RMGO when I receive it.
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