30.06 on an apartment parking lot?

30.06 on an apartment parking lot?

This is a discussion on 30.06 on an apartment parking lot? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; A couple friends of mine moved into an apartment complex this year that has a 30.06 (CHL not allowed) sign posted at the entrance to ...

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Thread: 30.06 on an apartment parking lot?

  1. #1
    Member Array FallenPhoenix's Avatar
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    30.06 on an apartment parking lot?

    A couple friends of mine moved into an apartment complex this year that has a 30.06 (CHL not allowed) sign posted at the entrance to the parking lot. Both of these girls are pro second amendment and one has expressed interest in getting her CHL in the not too distant future. I believe neither is really aware or active in the politics involved though, not merely complacent. They both seemed confused when I initially expressed my concern and displeasure at the sign. I will have to make it a point to try and educate them on what this company is saying by not allowing CHL holders to carry on their property.

    I'm assuming, as the law stands now, this sign is legal and valid. However, I was wondering how you think a court case would play out if someone was carrying there and forced to defend themselves? Could the apartment complex be sued, with a reasonable expectation of success, if a resident was injured and unable to defend themselves due to this posting? Additionally, if I were to leave a handgun in my car, would that still be violating the signage as I am a CHL holder? (Even though it is legal for a person to have a handgun in their car in Texas)

    Due to the recent weather and being concerned for my friends, I've been thinking more about this. I do plan to write a letter to the company that owns the apartments, detailing my concerns and disapproval of the sign. They will certainly never receive any of my money and I hope to persuade my friends to move once their lease is up.

    As another note of interest, an armed robbery occurred at a complex I used to live in that has a "no weapons" policy in their contract. I am assuming that is not a criminal matter if that is broken, simply a breach of the contract?


  2. #2
    Member Array fastforty's Avatar
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    Translated, that sign reads: "BG friendly area, please feel free to molest the local herd of Sheeple". You might as well write your letter to Sarah Brady, I wouldn't get near the place.

  3. #3
    Member Array mslaughtertx's Avatar
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    I will verify this but...Technically they can forbid carry with a 30.06 in any common area or property owned by the complex except the tenants have a right that is given to them once they lease an apartment to carry on their person in that apartment. Also, there is not currently a provision that forbids the right to carry in your car. So the 30.06 would have very little to keep your friend from holstering up and putting her weapon in the car until leaving the parking lot. However, there is a whole argument on the basis that she is a tenant there and has a vested interest in the parking lot as well and if she is to carry in her car (then that would be considered her property). That would be more of a question for a lawyer. Though I do find it very stupid that they would post a sign like that on a parking lot like an invitation to all the scum to car jack you at will.

  4. #4
    Member Array dthowell's Avatar
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    in my class we were taught premises don't mean parking lots unless federal. Like a job if it is in your contract that may be another story, Castle Doctrine allows you to carry in your car. call DPS!!!!
    So be it, until victory is America's and there is no enemy, but peace!

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    First question is the signage at EVERY entrance to the parking lot? Second question, which apartment complex?
    Mark

    "The world is filled with violence. Because criminals carry guns, we decent law-abiding citizens should also have guns. Otherwise they will win and the decent people will lose."

    -James Earl Jones

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    VIP Member Array automatic slim's Avatar
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    Wow!! I find it hard to believe that this is in Texas, although the parent company is probably in New York or California. Since the state constitution guarantees the right to bear arms, it would seem the rule would be illegal. What other rights do they prohibit? By all means, name the complex!
    "First gallant South Carolina nobly made the stand."
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    VIP Member Array Kerbouchard's Avatar
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    I honestly do not believe the sign is legal, but let me do some fact checking and I will get back to you. As far as I know, the 30.06 sign is not valid for prohibiting somebody from keeping a firearm in their residence, and an apartment counts as a residence.

    Sounds like an inproperly posted sign to me.
    There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other is wrong, but the middle is always evil.

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    Distinguished Member Array XD 45's Avatar
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    wheres the place so we know to stay away
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  9. #9
    VIP Member Array Kerbouchard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Texas Law
    46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS. (a) A person
    commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or
    recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun, illegal
    knife, or club if the person is not:
    (1) on the person's own premises or premises under the
    person's control; or
    (2) inside of or directly en route to a motor vehicle
    that is owned by the person or under the person's control.
    (a-1) A person commits an offense if the person
    intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or
    her person a handgun in a motor vehicle that is owned by the person
    or under the person's control at any time in which:
    (1) the handgun is in plain view; or
    (2) the person is:
    (A) engaged in criminal activity, other than a
    Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance
    regulating traffic;
    (B) prohibited by law from possessing a firearm;
    or
    (C) a member of a criminal street gang, as
    defined by Section 71.01.
    (a-2) For purposes of this section, "premises" includes
    real property and a recreational vehicle that is being used as
    living quarters, regardless of whether that use is temporary or
    permanent. In this subsection, "recreational vehicle" means a motor
    vehicle primarily designed as temporary living quarters or a
    vehicle that contains temporary living quarters and is designed to
    be towed by a motor vehicle. The term includes a travel trailer,
    camping trailer, truck camper, motor home, and horse trailer with
    living quarters.
    (b) Except as provided by Subsection (c), an offense under
    this section is a Class A misdemeanor.
    (c) An offense under this section is a felony of the third
    degree if the offense is committed on any premises licensed or
    issued a permit by this state for the sale of alcoholic beverages.
    The apartment complex is full of it. There is NO legal provision for making a firearm unavailable to a resident of Texas at their place of residence.

    If you do not want to get your friend involved, you are more than welcome to PM me with the address of their apartment management and I will write their management a letter regarding their illegally posted sign.

    Regards,
    Kerb
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  10. #10
    Member Array FallenPhoenix's Avatar
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    The complex in question is "The Arbors at Wolf Pen Creek" and the owning company is Amalgamated Management Corporation. They have locations in several Texas cities as well as in Iowa and Illinois.

    I was reasonably certain a 30.06 sign could not prohibit people in a residence from keeping a firearm, thank you very much for finding the code stating such. I'm still curious if they can prohibit CHL carry in the parking lot. I have heard that Texas Tech has actually posted every single entrance into the campus, though I haven't seen it in person.

  11. #11
    VIP Member Array Kerbouchard's Avatar
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    A normal business can prohibit a CHL holder from carrying in a parking lot. However, it cannot prevent a person from accessing their residence. The rules change when that businesses primary purpose is to provide residences.
    There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other is wrong, but the middle is always evil.

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  12. #12
    Member Array FallenPhoenix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerbouchard View Post
    A normal business can prohibit a CHL holder from carrying in a parking lot. However, it cannot prevent a person from accessing their residence. The rules change when that businesses primary purpose is to provide residences.
    So residents and car carry would be legal, but carrying in the parking lot, walking to an apartment (as a CHL holder) can be prohibited by the complex?

    I forgot to mention, they do have it posted at every entrance. I intend to take pictures at some point as well.

  13. #13
    VIP Member Array Kerbouchard's Avatar
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    I have to do more fact checking. In my opinion, they cannot legally post the sign in the first place therefore it is completely unenforcable. The owner of an establishment or residence can give permission for anybody to carry a firearm on their premesis. It is not the owner of the facility, but the person who is renting the residence, that has control over the residence. If the person who is leasing the residence gives you permission to carry on their premesis, the apartment should not have any legal ability to prevent you from doing so.

    I'll get back to this thread in the morning after I go through some statutes, and I will also write to the owner of the apartment complex. Just because it's a properly posted sign, does not make it legal.
    There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other is wrong, but the middle is always evil.

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  14. #14
    Senior Member Array Skygod's Avatar
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    Interesting topic.

    I'm not a Texan so I'm just going on what the 30-06 sign means in reference to places of business and other common areas such as parks, eatery's etc.

    It sounds as though the apartment complex is attempting to use this sign and law as a broad sweeping "NO GUN ZONE" to include the individual apartments and the domain that one occupies once a leased if signed.

    I would first telephone the management of the complex and express your concern. If that doesn't work, take it to a higher level.

    I lived in a townhome for a number of years, which of course was owned with a traditional mortgage. I kept more than 40 firearms in a safe in my walk in closet and of course the bed stand gun and shotgun beneath my bed.

    Interestingly enough I had become acquinted with another owner in the complex who happened to be a flaming liberal and she made several complaints to the board that I had "guns galore" in my residence. Ordinarily I wouldn't give a hoot but I recieved a letter stating the their is a "NO GUN" policy in the entire complex. What made my case with the board was that no where in the by laws of the complex was there ever a mention of firearms or the use thereof in self defense. Afterall, this wasn't the military and we didn't have to store our personally owned firearms in a complex armory.

    The situation was resovled when I had an attorney write the board explaining their potential denial of my Second Amendment rights. Needless to say the board didn't want anything to do with the NRA and a high profile case with a civil suit for denying my Second Amendment rights all over the front page, possibly on the local and national news segments.

    What was found later was that almost everyone in the complex had at least one firearm, if not more, much like myself. Afterall, it's us that own the townhomes, not the board.

    Interesting stuff and cost me $750 to have the attorney write up a strongly worded letter with the threat of high level exposure to open the boards eyes. That was about six years ago.
    U.S. Army retired
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    Senior Member Array press1280's Avatar
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    I don't know Texas law, but I can't see this as legal. You'll have to get the guns to/from your residence somehow, namely the parking lot. I'm wondering if this is a low budget alternative to having real security.
    The 30.06 signs-do you have to get those from the state gov't or can you get them anywhere?
    "The right of the whole people, old and young, men, women and boys, and not militia only, to keep and bear arms of every description, not such merely as are used by the militia, shall not be infringed, curtailed, or broken in upon, in the smallest degree..."
    Nunn v. State GA 1848

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