Cops and c.c.

This is a discussion on Cops and c.c. within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; every once in a while i will read about some leo who is in an off duty shooting. some times one of the charges against ...

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Thread: Cops and c.c.

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array stormbringerr's Avatar
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    Cops and c.c.

    every once in a while i will read about some leo who is in an off duty shooting. some times one of the charges against him is carrying a concealed weapon w/out a license.
    i didn't think leos needed a c.c. license to carry a gun while ( off duty) it doesnt make sense to me either.
    does this go according to the state or what.
    the recent cop that was cleared of shooting a hells angle off duty.
    one of the charges against him was carrying a concealed weapon.
    enlighten me please......he was cleared of all charges i believe later
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    Senior Member Array Divebum47's Avatar
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    It depends upon the state. In Ohio, off duty officers and retired officers who were required to carry firearms in the performance of their duties are permitted to carry concealed weapons as long as they fully comply with Ohio's concealed carry laws. Consult your state laws. YMMV.
    "Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups"

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    That is up to state laws and up to dept.policy. Most states have exemptions for this, some do not.

    There is some confusion about LEOSA,which covers officers in all 50 states,and makes it possible for an officer to carry anywhere, as his badge and ID is the permit. Some of the anti-gun states hate that idea, and some police chiefs specifically prohibit their officers from carrying off duty,they tell their officers that if they do carry off duty, they are doing it on their own and will not receive any assistance in the event of a shooting.

    Some Dept's. don't allow their officers to carry off duty. Although legally state laws allows it, they may face disciplinary action from within their dept.

    My state specifically allows any off duty officer to carry and most Dept's. encourage it. We even qualify with our "off duty" and backup weapons but we have to use dept. issued ammo.

    FWIW...one can be charged with anything. Bogus charges will be dropped before the case makes it to court. Some people unknowingly get charged with crimes that aren't crimes because the officer or even in some cases the prosecutors aren't familiar with the law and its only upon researching it that they realize a mistake was made.

    When was the last time anyone heard of an officer being convicted of a concealed weapons charge? I cant even remember the last time I heard of it.
    Last edited by HotGuns; September 14th, 2008 at 03:07 PM.
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    VIP Member Array stormbringerr's Avatar
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    i dont see why all police officers cant carry concealed off duty in any state in the U.S, and just use their police I.D. to carry concealed,i think it would make sense, at least to me it would.
    here is the story i read about it.and i dont think all the charges have been dismissed only the perjury so far....http://www.policeone.com/officer-sho...t-Hells-Angel/
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    Distinguished Member Array Pro2A's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stormbringerr View Post
    every once in a while i will read about some leo who is in an off duty shooting. some times one of the charges against him is carrying a concealed weapon w/out a license.
    i didn't think leos needed a c.c. license to carry a gun while ( off duty) it doesnt make sense to me either.
    As far as I'm concerned they aren't more equal then the rest of us. They should meet all the requirements to carry off duty that us commoners have to in order to carry.

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    VIP Member Array stormbringerr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pro2A View Post
    As far as I'm concerned they aren't more equal then the rest of us. They should meet all the requirements to carry off duty that us commoners have to in order to carry.
    im pretty sure since they are cops they already have met and exceeded those requirements.
    even though im pretty sure im a better shot than the majority of LEOs in the country.no disrespect intended,i just practice a lot.
    Last edited by stormbringerr; September 14th, 2008 at 11:52 PM.
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    Distinguished Member Array Pro2A's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stormbringerr View Post
    I.e. a license to carry. I believe they should have a CCL in order to carry off duty. Thats just IMO tho...

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    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pro2A View Post
    I.e. a license to carry. I believe they should have a CCL in order to carry off duty. Thats just IMO tho...
    I have to strongly disagree with you on this one.

    You as a concealed weapon license holder have not had the training that even a rookie fresh from the Academy has had, unless you spend a lot of money and time getting additional training.

    Also, the background check for a concealed weapons license is far less than the background check for a LEO position in most cases. Did your neighbors, past and present employers and High School teachers get interviewed as part of your background check? I highly doubt it.

    The "average" concealed weapons license holder does not come in contact with criminals on a daily basis in an "official capacity". You have the option of not dealing with criminals for the most part, we don't. Not dealing with someone is not really an option given the nature of the job.

    Please don't take this to think I am against legal carry of a firearm, far from it, but please don't think you are on the same playing field either. I carried a gun before becoming a LEO, as I most likely will when I'm done being a LEO.

    Lastly, you know what they say about rectums and opinions, everybody has one.

    Biker

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    Member Array dogrunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Divebum47 View Post
    It depends upon the state. In Ohio, off duty officers and retired officers who were required to carry firearms in the performance of their duties are permitted to carry concealed weapons as long as they fully comply with Ohio's concealed carry laws. Consult your state laws. YMMV.
    Wrong. HR 218, now LEOSA enables any working (or otherwise qualified retiree) officer to carry anywhere in the US or any US territory.

    Some circumstances tho, DO make the possession of that gun illegal...IE: being intoxicated, carrying in a park where prohibited and some other very limited circumstances.....Generally tho, under LEOSA an officer, or retired qualified officer, can carry anywhere other than as specifically prohibited. A person so carrying is not bound by many state laws, such as notification of an officer on being stopped in a traffic incident per example.....nor would he be bound by a prohibition on carry in a church or polling place.

    Insofar as the Sturgis incident goes, I'd bet that the cause for the charge was likely that that officer was outside the bounds of LEOSA. By the way, in General, LEOSA EXEMPTS a qualified individual from ALL other state or municipal law to the contrary governing the carriage of a concealed firearm.

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    Senior Member Array Old Sarge's Avatar
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    I have to agree with BikerRN. They have had their days in the barrel, and like a military infantryman. Hours and hours upon hours, of practice, practice, and more practice. Much more than the average CCW holder.

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    VIP Member Array stormbringerr's Avatar
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    heres the first story where the entire group of LEOs were charged with concealed carry w/out a permit in the same case.

    Seattle cop charged in Hells Angels shooting
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    I agree with Biker

    LEO should be able to carry anywhere/anytime, they are never really off-duty and can answer the call for help.
    It makes perfect sense to allow LEO to carry coast to coast anywhere anytime. The states and/or departments that are contrary to this are completely illogical (is it a coincidence that some of these states/areas are also more restrictive in the area of civilian/non-LEO firearms/CCW???). Now this being said, I'm a big 2A supporter, have my Texas CHL, and I think that I should be able to carry anywhere/anytime also

    As for the line of thinking that LEO are no different than civilians....I understand this logic but disagee with it. Yes, LEO should follow the laws and should be charged when they don't as non-LEO would be. I support this 100%. But LEO should not have to be licensed to carry off-duty since they are licensed by their state as a LEO and to carry a firearm already. In addition, they intervene in situations just as they would if they were on-duty. Its like having extra cops on the street but not on the clock at the time. Makes great use of the cost of training officers.

    Since the OP is from Texas, I'll add this:
    LEO in Texas are exempt from the laws of UCW (unlawful carrying of weapon). In Texas, Peace Officers can carry anywhere/anytime. In fact, there are some situations that Texas LEO are required to intervene whether on or off duty, and they are fully supported by state law in this.
    Our department will fully support officers fulfilling their expected duties, even when off-duty, and thats the way it should be. I hope that citizens appreciate that, the Fed and state gov'ts should too.

    One other thing, Texas passed a new law that took effect in September....all LEO must carry their credentials while off-duty....it would be totally absurd to carry your credentials/badge and not carry your sidearm too!
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    Distinguished Member Array T Bone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN
    You as a concealed weapon license holder have not had the training that even a rookie fresh from the Academy has had, unless you spend a lot of money and time getting additional training.

    Also, the background check for a concealed weapons license is far less than the background check for a LEO position in most cases. Did your neighbors, past and present employers and High School teachers get interviewed as part of your background check? I highly doubt it.
    Well, I am probably as well trained (or better) than the average rookie LEO. More importantly, I've undergone a more rigorous (or as rigorous I'm nearly certain) background check (I don't recall ever hearing of anyone having neighbors/teachers interviewed to be a LEO, though that is here, might very well be different elsewhere).

    Either way, I agree they should be able to carry everywhere. The criminal element they deal with puts them in a much higher percentage of risk (on and off the job) than the average CPL holder.

    But they are not always allowed to carry everywhere. Some departments do not allow off duty carry (I suspect fear of liability in these cases, combined with some "anti" leaning higher ups in the department). OTOH, some departments require off duty carry. A second cousin of mine, and a husband of a secretary at a company I used to work for were both Detroit Police Officers. They were required to carry anytime within the State of Michigan boundaries (this was the days before CPL reciprocity was widespread, I've no idea if they've expanded it to include other States). Often if it was deemed "a pain", they'd carry mouse guns, and even then sometimes put them in their wives purses (not the most responsible choice if you ask me). But at least in the many departments I'm aware of around here, they aren't prohibited from carrying off duty.
    Regards, T Bone.


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    Senior Member Array FlyboyLDB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN View Post
    I have to strongly disagree with you on this one.

    You as a concealed weapon license holder have not had the training that even a rookie fresh from the Academy has had, unless you spend a lot of money and time getting additional training.

    Also, the background check for a concealed weapons license is far less than the background check for a LEO position in most cases. Did your neighbors, past and present employers and High School teachers get interviewed as part of your background check? I highly doubt it.

    The "average" concealed weapons license holder does not come in contact with criminals on a daily basis in an "official capacity". You have the option of not dealing with criminals for the most part, we don't. Not dealing with someone is not really an option given the nature of the job.

    Please don't take this to think I am against legal carry of a firearm, far from it, but please don't think you are on the same playing field either. I carried a gun before becoming a LEO, as I most likely will when I'm done being a LEO.

    Lastly, you know what they say about rectums and opinions, everybody has one.

    Biker
    Ditto. There are several reasons a LEO should be granted "automatic conceal or off duty carry". They do indeed, through the course of their daily routine, arrest, cite, come in contact with - people that the average person will not. There will be a percentage that will be angry, and a percentage of those who may wish to seek pay back.

    If this is just a perk - let's give it to our LEOs. I have family members that are LEOs - and trust me - the perks are not that great.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyboyLDB View Post
    They do indeed, through the course of their daily routine, arrest, cite, come in contact with - people that the average person will not. There will be a percentage that will be angry, and a percentage of those who may wish to seek pay back.
    For that reason alone all LEOs should have the right to carry regardless of whether they are retired, or just off-duty.
    "Society never advances. It recedes as fast on one side as it gains on the other. It undergoes continual change; but this change is not [an improvement]. For everything that is given, something is taken."
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