How many times do you fire at assailant? - Page 4

How many times do you fire at assailant?

This is a discussion on How many times do you fire at assailant? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; P.S. post, and also while I am shooting my pairs I am thinking movement. I am getting away from the threat. Thus, I don't see ...

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Thread: How many times do you fire at assailant?

  1. #46
    Senior Member Array BlueLion's Avatar
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    P.S. post, and also while I am shooting my pairs I am thinking movement. I am getting away from the threat. Thus, I don't see any well trained civilian standing there pumping a guy full of rounds. You will definitely get yourself shot. Moreover, most BG's will be surprised that you are even armed and you can possibly say that some one will be shot and some will be bleeding and leaving. Also, there is most of the time never more than 3 rounds fired during a civilian gun encounter. This is not in stone but has been said several times.
    Listen, Think and React.....Nuff Said.....


  2. #47
    Senior Member Array tanksoldier's Avatar
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    Freak is correct. If you go into asituation assuming that one tactic or technque is the way to go, and that isn't best for the situation, then you're at a disadvantage.

    What happens if you shgoot the 2+1, and the head shot misses?

    Officers have been killed for following their training, fire two shots then reholster... just like at the range. Or killed walking around looking for the brass bucket to drop their revolver casings in. It's true.

    If you have to shoot, shoot COM. If you suspect a vest, change your POA, but continue to shoot until the threat goes down and is still. We train to shoot flat on our back (at least I have) what makes you think the BG hasn't? Shoot until you are certain the threat is eliminated.
    "I am a Soldier. I fight where I am told, and I win where I fight." GEN George S. Patton, Jr.

  3. #48
    Senior Member Array rachilders's Avatar
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    As many times as it takes to stop the treat, doesn't matter if the BG runs away or drops face first into the dirt. If one shot scares him/her/them off or hits 'em in a vital area, great. If it takes 7 shots, that's what it will take.
    "... Americans... we want a safe home, to keep the money we make and shoot bad guys." -- Denny Crane

  4. #49
    Member Array ka0azs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by old4x4
    Until the gun is empty. Do not reload. When I was foolish enough to live in MA, the guy who gave my course for my handgun permit told us that. It made sense. He said in court, it'll show a high amount of stress (panic) to just keep pulling the trigger until the gun is empty and may help in a self defense situation. If you reload, it may show premeditation to some extent. Just my .02
    As has been stated before, that may be the perception in MA, but I've never heard it before, and it's bad tactics.

    My plan (and we all know what happens to plans on contact with the enemy) is to double tap into the COM while moving off the axis of attack until he goes down or breaks contact (runs away). At the first point that I have effective cover and/or a break in the action I will swap mags, as there may be other threats that you didn't see or developed during the encounter, as per my training in a number of venues.

    To me, the fact that you reloaded after the threat ceased and did NOT continue firing speaks against premeditation and being out of control, but as being well trained and able to assess the threat realistically.

    To me, the "show a high amount of stress (panic)" is exactly what I do NOT want to show. Being threatened and reacting to end the threat is NOT the same as panic. If you allow them to project you as panicing, it's a short step to making you look paranoid and out of control, and therefore not justified in shooting.

    The important thing here, is the ability to articulate a clear, rational, legal reason for your actions, that you were in control (even though you were under stress), and used only the amount of force neccessary for the situation.
    Randy
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  5. #50
    Member Array ka0azs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tanksoldier
    If you have to shoot, shoot COM. If you suspect a vest, change your POA, but continue to shoot until the threat goes down and is still. We train to shoot flat on our back (at least I have) what makes you think the BG hasn't? Shoot until you are certain the threat is eliminated.
    One technique I've seen discussed in the situation is a "Reverse Mozambique" 2 to the chest + 1 to the pelvic area. The theory is that it's an easier target to hit than the head, body armor often does not extend that far down (athough some does), and a good hit there will cripple the opponent no matter how pain resistant (drugs, adrenaline, etc) he is
    Randy
    NRA Life Member

  6. #51
    Senior Member Array High Altitude's Avatar
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    Like most CCW holders I have thought about and trained for the scenarios when I have to pull my firearm and shoot. I would like to think that I would be able to consicously aim, shoot, evaluate, shoot until the threat is stopped etc... but realistically, I wouldn't be surprised if I pulled my Glock 26 and fired a decatap , unloading the firearm and taking some time to even realize that the slide is locked back and trigger won't move.

    Hopefully, I never have to find out, but I prepare the best I can.

  7. #52
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    Array Miggy's Avatar
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    OK, how many here are basing their answer on what they practice on IDPA or IPSC? Or to what some "Gun Guru" says it is the accepted standard?

    At the most basic, I would go for Failure Drill (2 to the body, 1 to the head, no "assesment" time.).... but that is assuming ALL SHOTS HIT THE TARGET WHERE THEY COUNT! (sorry for yelling, but I consider this important.)

    Now, let's face it, we are all of the sudden in a situation where our life is in danger, adrenalin flows, you are scared and all of the sudden your well practiced range grouping goes to hell in a handbasket. And that is if the BG decides to be nice and stays put while you sling lead his way. And, Are you gonna stay put, dive for cover or at least move so you are not an stationary target? Shooting on the move?

    Last night our club held its monthly Drills class (You were missed Ex) and the instructor, after running the basics got us into Failure Drills and NSR (Non-Standard Response). The principle behind NSR is that lots of shooters, specially those of us who do some sort of tactical competition, tend to get stuck with shooting a standard number of shots, most common: 2 to the body. So what happens if you add all the factors I mentioned above, you shoot twice, stop to see your handiwork and the BG decides to shoot back? You might get killed.

    So you train NSR which, the way I was explained, it starts with aimed four shots at least and up to six. The shots can be done in hammers, controlled pairs, failure drills, to the body, to COM, to Pelvis, to ocular cavity...whatever puts the guy down.
    At the end, what it counts, is that the BG ceases to be a threat for good. Legalities can be dealt with later if I survive. If I am dead, I won't give a damn.
    You have to make the shot when fire is smoking, people are screaming, dogs are barking, kids are crying and sirens are coming.
    Randy Cain.

    Ego will kill you. Leave it at home.
    Signed: Me!

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