Going to Disney, hotel question

[j21blackjack]

This is for the military guys I guess, but anyone could know the answer. I'll be going to Disney tomorrow and will be staying at Shades of Green. The hotel is owned and operated by the military, specifically the Armed Forces Recreation Center (AFRC). I know it's not a "base", but are there any special rules that apply to carrying a firearm on the property. I plan to keep my guns locked up while at the parks, but plan on carrying on the way there and while in Downtown Disney. Thanks for any info.

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[B52]

Just conceal deep my friend. Shades of Green is an awesome resort...I hope you play some golf there. Disney isn't to fond of CCW's, but I never had a problem going there...what they don't know won't concern them.

[retsupt99]

My sidearm would be on IWB duty the entire trip...concealed is concealed.

Stay armed...anywhere in Orlando...stay safe!

[Gamisou]

Smartcarry, it can be done.

[NavyLT]

If the resort is truly Federal Property where firearms are forbidden, it must be posted IAW 18 USC 930. If you possess your weapon past that posted sign, you will be committing a felony, so I would look closely for a 18 USC 930 sign.

WAIS Document Retrieval
Quoted from 18 USC 930:
(g) As used in this section:
(1) The term ``Federal facility'' means a building or part thereof owned or leased by the Federal Government, where Federal employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing their official duties.

(h) Notice of the provisions of subsections (a) and (b) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal facility,
and notice of subsection (e) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal court facility, and no person shall be convicted of an offense under subsection (a) or (e) with respect to a Federal facility if such notice is not so posted at such facility, unless such person had actual notice of subsection (a) or (e), as the case may be.

[goldshellback]

Navy LT is correct, and the sign is there.

I looked this up this past spring when I took the family down to the 'Rat Nest'.
The security there will ask if there are any weapons or contraband, and it's clearly posted. It's a great resort but it it a "Base" of sorts, and no guns on that 'military base'.

[rolyat63]

If the resort is truly Federal Property where firearms are forbidden, it must be posted IAW 18 USC 930. If you possess your weapon past that posted sign, you will be committing a felony, so I would look closely for a 18 USC 930 sign.

WAIS Document Retrieval
Quoted from 18 USC 930:
(g) As used in this section:
(1) The term ``Federal facility'' means a building or part thereof owned or leased by the Federal Government, where Federal employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing their official duties.

(h) Notice of the provisions of subsections (a) and (b) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal facility,
and notice of subsection (e) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal court facility, and no person shall be convicted of an offense under subsection (a) or (e) with respect to a Federal facility if such notice is not so posted at such facility, unless such person had actual notice of subsection (a) or (e), as the case may be.

NavyLT has the right Federal Stat but there are exceptions to 930; see below.

I think I would call them anonymously of course, just to get a read from them.

Title 18 USC 930 Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities

(a) Except as provided in subsection (d),



(d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to—

(1) the lawful performance of official duties by an officer, agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of any violation of law;

(2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if such possession is authorized by law; or

(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.

[NavyLT]

The exception stated below does not apply to weapons carried for self defense. It only applies, for instance, if you were going "on base" specifically to hunt, were in possession of a government issued weapon and reporting to duty, were participating in a parade or similar exhibition where weapons were called for, or were engaging in target shooting or competition. Otherwise, I would carry all the time to work, but, legally carrying the firearm for merely self defense is not exempted by the below statement in the law.

Also, the posting required by 18 USC 930 will specifically state to DECLARE all firearms to security forces - therefore, undeclared concealed carry is not allowed.

[JohnKelly]

The exception stated below does not apply to weapons carried for self defense. It only applies, for instance, if you were going "on base" specifically to hunt, were in possession of a government issued weapon and reporting to duty, were participating in a parade or similar exhibition where weapons were called for, or were engaging in target shooting or competition. Otherwise, I would carry all the time to work, but, legally carrying the firearm for merely self defense is not exempted by the below statement in the law.

Also, the posting required by 18 USC 930 will specifically state to DECLARE all firearms to security forces - therefore, undeclared concealed carry is not allowed.

So if you're headed to the shooting range later then it's legal?

Surely self defense would supercede any of those reasons?

[rolyat63]

So if you're headed to the shooting range later then it's legal?

Surely self defense would supercede any of those reasons?

Unfortunately thats why there is lawyers. Who decides what other lawful activities are. BTW, LT is there a compliant posting at ALL of the bases you frequent? Also, this law is not just for bases.

I'd keep it my trunk and when I went off the reservation I'd arm up.

[NavyLT]

Surely self defense would supercede any of those reasons?

Not according to almost every base commander in charge of a US Military installation. Very few installations allow carry for self defense. Those that do require registration of the specific firearm to be carried with the base security force.

There are many more federal installations that allow hunting or allow use of private weapons on their ranges, again subject to registration, that do not allow the carry of firearms for other reasons. A good example of this is living in base housing on Tinker AFB. I was able to keep my firearms in base housing. I was able to transport my firearms directly from my base housing onto and off base. I was not allowed to carry any firearm on the base outside my vehicle and not allowed to stop anywhere on base with the firearms in my vehicle.

The bottom line is: before you carry a firearm past the 18 USC 930 sign, you will want to have written verification from the commander of that installation that the particular firearm you are going to carry past that sign is authorized or you subject yourself to felony prosecution. An assumption on what is "for other legal purposes" will not be sufficient proof in a federal court and any attempt to conceal the questionable firearm (state permitted or not) will be used as evidence for the prosecution.

BTW, LT is there a compliant posting at ALL of the bases you frequent? Also, this law is not just for bases.

I'd keep it my trunk and when I went off the reservation I'd arm up.

Yes, there is compliant posting at the entrance to every base I have ever been on. It's a rather large sign usually posted on the fence adjacent to the entrance point you would drive or walk through.

Keeping the weapon in the trunk, if you enter the installation in your vehicle past that sign is still in violation of federal law. At the resort hotel, if you pass through a posted gate to get into the parking you would be in violation. If only the building is posted, and the parking lot is not, then you are correct, you woud not be in violaton of that specific law to keep the gun in the vehicle.

[rolyat63]

Yes, there is compliant posting at the entrance to every base I have ever been on. It's a rather large sign usually posted on the fence adjacent to the entrance point you would drive or walk through.

Keeping the weapon in the trunk, if you enter the installation in your vehicle past that sign is still in violation of federal law. At the resort hotel, if you pass through a posted gate to get into the parking you would be in violation. If only the building is posted, and the parking lot is not, then you are correct, you woud not be in violaton of that specific law to keep the gun in the vehicle.

I'm currrently sitting on MacDill and there is no sign at any of the gates. Ops and the SP's can't articualte a policy against and only point to USC 18 930. The AFI 31-101 has guidance that the Bases are to make a policy and it should be only as restrictive as necessary. The base has no reference to weapons in their 31-101. The AFI is available on SIPR.

[goldshellback]

At the Shades of Green resort, an Army installation, firearms are prohibited. I've been there, I've looked it up, and I've asked them there. NavyLT is correct.

I'm currrently sitting on MacDill and there is no sign at any of the gates. Ops and the SP's can't articualte a policy against and only point to USC 18 930. The AFI 31-101 has guidance that the Bases are to make a policy and it should be only as restrictive as necessary. The base has no reference to weapons in their 31-101. The AFI is available on SIPR.

There are more than a couple of military installations that allow the transport on and off thier bases. Many of them have state roads/highways that pass through them in non-senstive areas and as long as you stay to the roads, or the firing ranges that allow civilian access then not a problem. I've been to, and through, a few of 'em.

There are many more bases where there are NO firearms allowed. Some bases make exceptions for hunting, storing firearms in housing, etc. Those exceptions and the regulations regarding firearms are spelled out pretty clearly. That has been my experience. I havent been to Tinker AFB but I believe you the signs arn't there. There are "no Firearms" signs posted at every access point here at Kings Bay Naval Submarine Base, but I can bring a firearm on base to housing (if I lived there) or for hunting. A lot of paperwork is required and it is very restricted, but it can be legally done for those purposes. Under no circumstances can a privately owned handgun be brought on this base concealed. I don't like it, but I have to obey it.

To the OP, I'd go to thier website, [url=http://www.shadesofgreen.org/], and call them directly. Ask for the Security Dept. and talk with the duty Watch officer, supervisor, or OIC. If they don't know or can't answer your querry to your satisifaction, they will be able to point you in the right direction. There may just be provisions for civilian firearms there that I don't know or am not aware of now.

[NavyLT]

That's interesting. I guess if you are sure there are no signs, then you are free to do whatever is legal by state law because you can't be prosecuted according to 18 USC 930... It'd be interesting to find out how that turns out...

[rolyat63]

NavyLT has the right Federal Stat but there are exceptions to 930; see below.

I think I would call them anonymously of course, just to get a read from them.

At the Shades of Green resort, an Army installation, firearms are prohibited. I've been there, I've looked it up, and I've asked them there. NavyLT is correct.

Agreed, partially. I never said you could conceal and LT's coment with regard to duty etc... are not covered by 18USC 930. At MacDill (not Tinker) we have a skeet range so technically there are others reason. My main point is that it is ambiguous at best. Each base different policies or none at all.

To the OP, I'd go to thier website, [url=http://www.shadesofgreen.org/], and call them directly. Ask for the Security Dept. and talk with the duty Watch officer, supervisor, or OIC. If they don't know or can't answer your querry to your satisifaction, they will be able to point you in the right direction. There may just be provisions for civilian firearms there that I don't know or am not aware of now.

As far as base folks pointing you in the right direction I don't agree. We have trying to get, in black and white, the regs for this base and we have not gotten clear, unabiguous responses. Like many here, I have had from end of the spectrum to the other in my 25+ years of navigating the military...

Just got off the phone with "Jim" in security. Jim said weapons can be locked in your car or checked with them. "They just have to be locked up."