New signage at credit union.

This is a discussion on New signage at credit union. within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Well I go to the credit union on Friday, same as always. However as I get to the door I notice a new sign posted ...

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Thread: New signage at credit union.

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    New signage at credit union.

    Well I go to the credit union on Friday, same as always. However as I get to the door I notice a new sign posted on an 8 1/2 x 11 laminated paper with the 30.06 wording ect. At first I think, oh heck I can't go in there, but then I come to my senses and realize that it doesn't meet the statue and isn't legal. So I go in. While talking to the teller I bring it up and ask, what the deal is. She tells me that the new head of the credit union has placed it up there. So against my wife's wishes I wrote her the following letter and will send it to her on Monday. I purposely did not mention that the signage was not legal, although the teller seemed to already know that.

    Joy,

    Friday when we came by the credit union I noticed a new sign by the door on my way in. It was a laminated sign with the language from Texas Penal Code 30.06 on it. This is the section that deals with trespass by holder of license to carry concealed handgun.

    I have a few questions. Why was the sign posted, and is it the intentions of the credit union to prohibit CHL holders from entering the premises? Do you feel that members or your staff are any safer by prohibiting members who have their CHL from entering when carrying concealed.

    My reason for asking this question is pretty simple. Code section 30.06, is only enforceable against a person that has a Texas CHL. Those persons have spent somewhere near 300 dollars, to take the required 10 hour course on Texas Law and handgun proficiency, have submitted photo’s, finger prints, and passed both a state and federal background check, in order to legally carry a concealed handgun. The persons who have their CHL have not been convicted of a felony, have not been convicted of a class A or B misdemeanor in the past 5 year under penal code 42.01, is not delinquent on child support, does not have a history of mental illness, are not delinquent on any state debts or taxes, or student loans, are not under any protective or restraining order or had a past history of family violence, and doesn’t have a history of alcohol or drug related charges in the past 10 years, along with some other criteria. This can all be found under General Code 411.172. I would guess that most of the members and even the employees of the credit union have not undergone this extensive of a background check.

    Based on the information from the Texas DPS website, CHL holders were 4 to 9 times less likely to be convicted of a crime in our state from the years 2002 to 2006 than the population as a whole.

    The signage posted does not keep someone who is carrying a concealed handgun illegally from entering your credit union, because they are not licensed holders of permits. Those people are already breaking the law. That sign will also not stop someone who is intent on coming into the credit union to do harm either. They are after all going to be engaged in criminal activity, and criminals by their nature do not obey the law.

    Again I ask what is the purpose for posting the signage? Has someone who is a permit holder come into the credit union and displayed their firearm or made it visible to your employees? If they have, they have broken the law and that person needs to be dealt with. Texas law already covers that. I can assure you that since Texas has allowed persons to legally carry concealed handguns in 1995, members have entered the credit union and done business without alarm to the staff or other members, since it was not known to them.

    Since I don’t foresee the credit union installing metal detectors which prohibit entry into the institution of people carrying firearms, or armed security guards in the near future, what is my assurance that someone won’t walk through your doors armed and ready to kill members or staff in order to get what they want? I take seriously the protection of myself and my family; therefore I have taken the appropriate steps to comply with Texas law on this issue and will continue to do so. If the intention of the credit union is to prohibit CHL holders from entering the building while carrying their firearm, then I will be forced to make the decision to continue to do business with this credit union or find another institution that does not take this stance on persons licensed to carry handguns in Texas. As far as I know your credit union is the only institution in our community with this policy.

    I look forward to hearing from you on this issue, and also the removal of the signage posted by the entrance, as I cannot think of any reason why persons abiding by Texas law would be asked not to enter this institution. I ask that the personal information in this letter not be shared with anyone who is not directly responsible for the posting of the signage by the credit union due to the nature of the topic.

    Thank you,

    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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  3. #2
    VIP Member Array grady's Avatar
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    Very well written. Reading it makes the head of the credit union sound like an uninformed idiot, or a flaming anti. Your points were well thought out and supported by facts. Excellent letter!

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    Senior Member Array Rossman's Avatar
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    good letter, I agree

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    Member Array Dihappy's Avatar
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    Id be interested in hearing a response, although wouldnt be surprised if its just a "thank you, our policy is what it is"
    "...trying to get a long gun into play while someone is all over you like a monkey eating a cupcake is not very conducive to good survival techniques." ~Bark'n

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    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    No, she will either respond or call me. It is a fairly small institution and I do work for them. If they loose me as a member they will have to find someone else to do the work I do for them, not that they can't do that. My dad is also on the supervisory board, and from what I have been told I have been previously put up as a nominee for the board of directors, not by my dad though.

    So I do expect a call from her this week.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
    www.ddchl.com
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    You have written a great letter...to the point...polite...you represent CCW holders well...

    Please share the response you receive with us.

    Stay armed...hopefully while banking...stay safe!
    The last Blood Moon Tetrad for this millennium starts in April 2014 and ends in September 2015...according to NASA.

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    Member Array FallenPhoenix's Avatar
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    That is an excellent letter, in my opinion. Puts the facts out there in a concise, respectful manner. Please post the result when it comes, I am very interested.

    For what it's worth, I personally would not ignore a 30.06 sign on a technicality. I'm not aware of any court cases that have set a precedent that might protect me in that situation and I have no desire to be a guinea pig right now. Plus if a place doesn't want me there as a legally armed citizen, I don't have much of a desire to be there either.

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    Senior Member Array older gunner's Avatar
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    Good job, farronwolf. I too am interested to hear the response.

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    Well written letter, keep us posted on the outcome.
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    Member Array Rebmik's Avatar
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    Good job to you for taking the time.

    Kev

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    Distinguished Member Array bandit383's Avatar
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    Good letter...I wonder if the board authorized it? Usually decisions like this are directed by the board of directors.

    Personally, threatening to leave (or insinuating) does nothing in my book. I would take the issue to the board of directors and made the case there if you got no action from the Prez. If you are going to fight the fight...might as well fight for all.

    Rick

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    Member Array Goel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FallenPhoenix View Post
    That is an excellent letter, in my opinion. Puts the facts out there in a concise, respectful manner. Please post the result when it comes, I am very interested.

    For what it's worth, I personally would not ignore a 30.06 sign on a technicality. I'm not aware of any court cases that have set a precedent that might protect me in that situation and I have no desire to be a guinea pig right now. Plus if a place doesn't want me there as a legally armed citizen, I don't have much of a desire to be there either.
    Excellent letter!

    If the 30.06 sign is not posted as a Verbatim copy of the 30.06 statute, in two tone/color, one inch letters and in both Spanish and English - it is not a legal notice to prohibit concealed carry.
    Last edited by Goel; September 22nd, 2008 at 02:15 PM.
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    "Though defensive violence will always be 'a sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." St. Augustine A.D. 354-430

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    Your letter is an excellent and unemotional summary of the general misunderstanding of concealed carry. It highlights the overall absurdity of the anti-gun arguments (A gun walked into a bar). The point that a licensee has been checked out more thoroughly than the CU employees themselves won't go unnoticed. Finally, pointing out that other CUs don't post this might give this manager an easy excuse to quietly remove the sign.
    The spirit of liberty is the spirit which is not too sure that it is right. - Learned Hand

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    VIP Member Array HKinNY's Avatar
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    +1 on the well written letter sometimes people must be told.

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    Member Array porsche4786's Avatar
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    Very well written, I can't wait to hear the responce!

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