There are permit holders, and then there are carriers?

This is a discussion on There are permit holders, and then there are carriers? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I live in Upper Michigan. I carry all the time. Most of the time people get a CPL because you can have a pistol in ...

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Thread: There are permit holders, and then there are carriers?

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array Tubby45's Avatar
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    I live in Upper Michigan. I carry all the time. Most of the time people get a CPL because you can have a pistol in your vehicle all the time and not just when the law says you are engaging in lawful purposes. Also, the CPL is an exception from the pistol purchase permit (receipt showing you passed the BG check) for pistols and as of Nov 22, 2005 qualifies as a NICS check exception. If you have a CPL, just fill out the 4473 and the dealer writes in your CPL number and you're set.
    07/02 FFL/SOT since 2006

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  3. #17
    VIP Member Array tns0038's Avatar
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    Well, I carry on me about 90% of the time.

    Examples of when I don't carry:

    Just yesterday afternoon, I drove along the beach and picked a spot to lay out with my wife and get some sun.

    Figuring there is NO crime on the beach I felt safe to leave my Glock in the truck 10 feet away from me.

    From time to time my work take me on a Military Base, or in an area that is secure by Secret Service. Since I never want to leave my Glock
    unwatched in the truck, I am forced to leave it at home.

  4. #18
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    I live in what I believe to be a very safe place. I too don't see a threat behind every face, and choose when to carry. Mostly, but not entirely, I seldom carry in town, though I will if I am out at night, which I seldom am. Areas near my neighborhood seem to be changing, and there will no doubt be more cc in my future.

    I ALWAYS carry when I travel out of town. I do this not just to protect myself if there is a car breakdown, but to have it by my bed in the hotel or motel.

    I personally do not find carrying an inconvenience. It is easy to put my Andrews Pocket Holster complete with Mustang .380 into my blue jeans pocket. Cocked and locked.

    I'd like something else with me too, but this is convenient for me; about the way folks talk of their KelTec or Ruger.

  5. #19
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    It's kinda funny... years ago while adding a weapon to my permit my instructor asked me if I carried all the time. I said "no". He said, "that's too bad". Naturally I asked "why"? He said, "because you probably won't have it when you need it"!

    That's all it took to wake me up. What he said kept playing over and over in my head and I couldn't argue with the logic and started carrying everywhere I could legally carry and have never regretted it.

    Maybe a short statement like that is all you'll need to say?
    ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!

    "A superior Operator is best defined as someone who uses his superior
    judgement to keep himself out of situations that would require a display of his
    superior skills."

  6. #20
    Member Array JrHawk's Avatar
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    My thoughts as to why permit holders don't carry come down to the following reasons

    1. Mindset - Many feel okay with taking a gun to the range and shooting or having one in the home or car. But the responsibility of actually carrying and maybe having to draw your weapon to defend yourself is a very big leap. Exactlymypoint said it well. There is that period when you now have a weapon, a permit and maybe a little training. Thats when the reality of actually having a firearm on them clicks in. Some choose not to take on that responsibility.

    2. Comfort/Inconvenience - All of us who carry have gone through that initial period of trying to figure out if the firearm is printing and what would happen when nature calls and the stall at the convenience store becomes a reality. I believe anyone can find a IWB or OWB holster that they can wear without being in pain and that does not print if you dress correctly. Yes it takes some thought. I have worked through the issue of what to do when entering a post office or public building and having to leave my weapon in a car. With an under the seat lock box securely chained to the seat track and a bit of practice its now second nature and virtually no one will notice my actions.

    My reasoning is that its most likely the time and place that I thought I would not need a weapon on me, that I would really need it. Bad parts of town, late nights, civil unrest, in the boonies alone provoke the thought of having a weapon on you. What about crossing the grocery store parking lot at the noon hour? Its Murphy's Law.

    Proper planning and the proper tools are to me part of the responsibility of carrying. If individuals don't want to take those steps and/or don't have a mindset for carry its their choice because its a responsibility we all should take very seriously.

  7. #21
    Member Array gg12's Avatar
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    Ramrod,
    I can't speak for your farrier, but just a thought. His job is really not conducive to carrying while at work. Shoeing a horse or even trimming one requires the farrier to bend at the waist, squat, grip with his knees while swinging a tool in one hand and supporting the hoof in the other, or both hands on the tool....and that's after he's picked up the foot and settled himself around it to work. The last thing you want to do is bend over, pick up the foot, and jab "Precious" in the ribs or soft parts with your carry piece. Most horses object to being jabbed, and real horses can really hurt you (mini's often are not big enough to cause the damage the regular 1000lb horse can). I'm not slamming mini's--matter of fact I'm in the market for one or two for the kids so if you know of someone with a couple ancient, kid-broke mini's/ponies.....

    I know I don't even carry a pocket knife when I work on my horse's feet because even that little Barlow can leave a bruise when it gets pinched into the fold of my leg.....course loosing a little leg fat might help, be that's a different story.

    Just a thought about the farrier.

  8. #22
    Senior Member Array FlyboyLDB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joemess View Post
    ........2. There are many places that I would have to disarm to enter (banks, university, post office, etc) and I do not like leaving a weapon in a vehicle unattended.....
    Andrew
    I think this right here sums it up for the majority of people who do not carry once they have their permit/license.

    I can carry the majority of time when not at work. But work takes me into too many different businesses that are off limits.

  9. #23
    Senior Member Array cwblanco's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by joemess
    ........2. There are many places that I would have to disarm to enter (banks, university, post office, etc) and I do not like leaving a weapon in a vehicle unattended.....
    Quote Originally Posted by FlyboyLDB View Post
    I think this right here sums it up for the majority of people who do not carry once they have their permit/license.

    I can carry the majority of time when not at work. But work takes me into too many different businesses that are off limits.
    I suspect that the foregoing statements are accurate. Texas has nearly 300,000 permits issued. Although it became legal in September 2007 to have a handgun in a vehicle without a permit, the permit applications in 2008 has increased by 40%, but that increase may be motivated by political perceptions.

    It is my unresearched opinion that less than 10% of the licensees actually carry a handgun on a regular basis, and that a good percentage of the others carry in their vehicle only, or in a briefcase or similar container which is quite different than carrying one loaded and on the person. Still though, having a handgun available is still better than nothing.

  10. #24
    Senior Member Array KenInColo's Avatar
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    When I first got my license, I felt a little uncomfortable whenever I carried. Now, I feel even more uncomfortable whenever when I'm not carrying.

    At first, I thought that I would probably only carry on certain occasions, i.e. the wife wakes up in the middle of the night needing something from the 24 hr Walgreen's etc.

    Since then, I have read more articles, taken more training, and browsed a few sites such as this one. I now carry almost 100%. Colo does not prohibit carry in banks, hospitals or establishments which serve alcohol.

    Signs in businesses prohibiting carry are meaningless

    In Colo you may have a loaded handgun in your car while transiting anywhere in the state where not prohibited the state or federal law.

    My carry setup is very comfortable. Since I went to IWB, I no longer worry about printing. There is simply no reason for me NOT to carry.
    An armed populace are called citizens.
    An unarmed populace are called subjects.

  11. #25
    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thumper View Post
    It's kinda funny... years ago while adding a weapon to my permit my instructor asked me if I carried all the time. I said "no". He said, "that's too bad". Naturally I asked "why"? He said, "because you probably won't have it when you need it"!

    That's all it took to wake me up. What he said kept playing over and over in my head and I couldn't argue with the logic and started carrying everywhere I could legally carry and have never regretted it.

    Maybe a short statement like that is all you'll need to say?
    Thanks Thumper. Good point. I'm in no way attempting say all permit holders should carry with....just trying to determine possible reasons for them getting the permit and not carrying on person.

    Quote Originally Posted by gg12 View Post
    Ramrod,
    I can't speak for your farrier, but just a thought. His job is really not conducive to carrying while at work. Shoeing a horse or even trimming one requires the farrier to bend at the waist, squat, grip with his knees while swinging a tool in one hand and supporting the hoof in the other, or both hands on the tool....and that's after he's picked up the foot and settled himself around it to work. The last thing you want to do is bend over, pick up the foot, and jab "Precious" in the ribs or soft parts with your carry piece. Most horses object to being jabbed, and real horses can really hurt you (mini's often are not big enough to cause the damage the regular 1000lb horse can). I'm not slamming mini's--matter of fact I'm in the market for one or two for the kids so if you know of someone with a couple ancient, kid-broke mini's/ponies.....

    I know I don't even carry a pocket knife when I work on my horse's feet because even that little Barlow can leave a bruise when it gets pinched into the fold of my leg.....course loosing a little leg fat might help, be that's a different story.

    Just a thought about the farrier.
    So true, and I accept those facts. It's just that he's told me of several times he's had some rather unnerving run-ins with large dogs.
    One mini is all we need for now, so don't really know the current market. Had Smokey for five years, he was the only mini running on a large farm with full size horses in Fayetteville. There are a few mini farms, one near Springdale, and Cave Springs generally has regular mini horse shows in the spring at the indoor rodeo arena there.

  12. #26
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    PA Permit

    I got mine because I wanted to go the the range. In PA, unless your going from your house to the range, it is illegal to conceal it in your car. Problem is was I usually took my gun to work and went to the range at lunch time. Yeah, you could do it with the lock box and ammo separated, but that was a pain. As I said in a previous post, this site has been mostly responsible for my decision to carry about 75% of the time. Most of my no carry time is shuttling my kids back and forth to sports practices. In PA you can't have a weapon on school property.

  13. #27
    Member Array Fatherof10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thumper View Post
    It's kinda funny... years ago while adding a weapon to my permit my instructor asked me if I carried all the time. I said "no". He said, "that's too bad". Naturally I asked "why"? He said, "because you probably won't have it when you need it"!
    Many years in the fire service have taught me that it is impossible to predict when calls will come. Weather, holidays, traffic, past experience, etc. never turn out to be good predictors. When we ought to be busy we are not and when we ought to be slow we are busy. We have learned to be prepared at all times.

    I realize the same unpredictability (if not even more) would make predicting when I would need to be armed an unfruitful task as well. I choose to be prepared at all times.

  14. #28
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    Always carry, never tell

    "I'm of the opinion if you leave the house without your weapon, you've decided to be a victim that day."

    Imagine coming home from a trip to the vet and finding an intruder. That thought brought me to my senses. The dog ain't always there, and, though she outweighs me, she can't stop everyone.
    Too much of a good thing is not enough... member of WVCDL and NRA

  15. #29
    Member Array calmp9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ram Rod View Post
    Well, being the rather outgoing person I am most of the time, I've started sort of feeling the air or testing the waters with acquaintances, and strangers about concealed carry, our state (Arkansas), and if they carry on them. Results sort of surprised me out of my three most recent inquiries.

    First is a long known acquaintance......the farrier who trims our mini-horse's hooves every six weeks or so. We always talk some about firearms, and he got himself a Glock last year sometime. He and I have been to the range once together to shoot up about 600 rounds of 40S&W through our Glocks. I asked him flat out one day if he carried on him. No, he said, I keep it in the truck. When he said he didn't know where or how to carry one on himself, I lifted my shirt to show him the G19 shrouded in kydex. He was surprised. I tried to send him home with a couple of my holsters to try, but he declined.

    Next up are two gentlemen I have met at the local shooting range. Both have permits, and one says he keeps it in vehicle and doesn't body carry, the other one when asked if he carried politely said he did have a permit and that was that.

    While I know that everyone is unique and makes their own decisions, I just can't quite figure out how to ask the question 'if you don't carry, then why did you get your permit?' tactfully. I just don't understand. Our state requires a day long course, and some expense as well. Granted a lot of these ol' boys have been carrying in vehicle for a long time and even before CC was born here. I had used the 'journey law' myself before and never ended up in the wrong.

    So...does anyone think that some folks get a carry permit just to remain on the right side of the law while doing what they've been used to all this time? Or do some not fully realize this means you can carry concealed with you/on you (most places)? I would ask one of those guys outright, but that would seem too invasive even for me.
    I don't mean to be harsh here, but going around poking your nose in other people's business, especially strangers, can get you into a world of trouble. It's none of your business if people have a CCW permit or whether they carry on a regular basis. We all have our reasons for getting a permit and some of us will carry all the time and some won't. That's it. Eventually, somebody is going to interpret your "outgoing personality" as an invasion of privacy. Even if I knew you, I would. Very few people know that I have a CCW permit and that's the way I want it. I conceal my firearm, keep my mouth shut and pray everyday that I don't have to use it. What I don't get is why people have to go around hinting or even flat out declaring that they have a CCW permit. They act like little children who have a big secret and nobody to tell. People have to understand that a big part of concealment is not talking about it all the time.
    "[A]rms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. . . Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them."

    - Thomas Paine, Thoughts On Defensive War, 1775

  16. #30
    Member Array calmp9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Divebum47 View Post
    Unless you and I are good friends, if you ask me, depending upon our relationship, I'll either tell you its none of your business, or take the stance I did when I was in charge of a missile system onboard naval vessels - I can neither confirm nor deny the presence of nuclear weapons on board this vessel."

    I just don't think it's a wise idea to advertise the fact. I teach 4-H shooting sports in Ohio. I'd hazard a guess that not one of my 4-H kids in my club or any of the kids I work with realizes that I have a CCW. Nor do their parents. I just don't think it's a good policy to let folks know if and when I choose to carry. If I advertise to the good guys, an observant BG will most likely learn my habits. And one thing you can say about BG's is that they ARE observant. Quite honestly, I really don't want you or anyone else to know if I'm armed or not. And believe me, it's nothing personal unless you are a BG about to threaten me or mine.
    I echoed that sentiment to the author in so many words. Carry a concealed firearm is serious business. It's not something that should be advertised.
    "[A]rms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. . . Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them."

    - Thomas Paine, Thoughts On Defensive War, 1775

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