There are permit holders, and then there are carriers?

This is a discussion on There are permit holders, and then there are carriers? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by calmp9 I don't mean to be harsh here, but going around poking your nose in other people's business, especially strangers, can get ...

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Thread: There are permit holders, and then there are carriers?

  1. #31
    Member Array airbornerangerboogie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by calmp9 View Post
    I don't mean to be harsh here, but going around poking your nose in other people's business, especially strangers, can get you into a world of trouble. It's none of your business if people have a CCW permit or whether they carry on a regular basis. We all have our reasons for getting a permit and some of us will carry all the time and some won't. That's it. Eventually, somebody is going to interpret your "outgoing personality" as an invasion of privacy. Even if I knew you, I would. Very few people know that I have a CCW permit and that's the way I want it. I conceal my firearm, keep my mouth shut and pray everyday that I don't have to use it. What I don't get is why people have to go around hinting or even flat out declaring that they have a CCW permit. They act like little children who have a big secret and nobody to tell. People have to understand that a big part of concealment is not talking about it all the time.

    All I have to agree here and good for you who carry "full-time", but I'll also cheer for anyone who takes responsibility for their safety and that of their families and goes to the trouble to get a CCL. Even if they only carry 75%, 50%, or 1%, it's no reason for anyone to look down on them. I'm an aging combat vet and didn't feel like a sheep even before I got my CCL. That gun on your hip doesn't make you a sheepdog, it's just a tool, the sheepdog is in the attitude.
    Just my 2 cents
    “Dream as if you'll live forever, live as if you'll die today.” James Dean
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  3. #32
    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    The "author" has viewed every reply in this thread and taken all into account naturally. The thread in and of itself actually all boils down to the last two paragraphs.

    While I know that everyone is unique and makes their own decisions, I just can't quite figure out how to ask the question 'if you don't carry, then why did you get your permit?' tactfully. I just don't understand. Our state requires a day long course, and some expense as well. Granted a lot of these ol' boys have been carrying in vehicle for a long time and even before CC was born here. I had used the 'journey law' myself before and never ended up in the wrong.

    So...does anyone think that some folks get a carry permit just to remain on the right side of the law while doing what they've been used to all this time? Or do some not fully realize this means you can carry concealed with you/on you (most places)? I would ask one of those guys outright, but that would seem too invasive even for me.
    Nobody is being looked down upon for what they choose or do not choose to do after obtaining a CC permit. I've never suggested that everyone who obtained their permit should be carrying on their person, or any certain percentage of the time. Just wanted to make that clear. Thanks for your replies.

  4. #33
    Senior Member Array wjh2657's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bae View Post
    What I like are guys who will endlessly give you their opinions about which UberHandgun is the best for concealed carry, but if pressed, admit they left it back in the safe because it was too much trouble to carry.
    The people that I have talked to and tell me they don't carry often are those that picked too big a gun for them to carry comfortably. To carry comfortably for these people means carry in all types of dress without weapon showing. I like the bigger semiautos and revolvers. .44s and .45s along with .357 L frames are beautiful and effective. Sadly they are also hard to conceal. Somebody here is going to come up with the argument that they conceal a Barrett.50 cal all day in shorts and T-shirt with the latest IWB holster. Good for them. I can't do it! I have tried to conceal larger weapons but find that I need to to completely change my style of dress to really do it.

    I carry every day. I am retired and don't have to worry about work place restrictions. I have a Gun Vault pistol safe secured in the trunk and put EDC there when I run into bank or post office. To EDC I have had to switch to J-Frames or a Taurus 85UL and pocket carry.

    Dress concessions are few. I have front pockets reinforced by seamstress (and lengthened if needed.) Summer I just wear what i would normally wear and carry S&W642 in pocketholster. Colder weather I wear 640 in same pocket holster and put on a pair of Perry suspenders to help support weight. As I wear a sweater or sweat shirt over shirt, the suspenders are hidden. I'm an old fart and suspenders are in style for me anyway!

    I can move around naturally and gun never shows. It is so natural and easy to forget that I have had to stop and go back to the car more than once because I was where I wasn't supposed to be with a gun.

    If you can't carry the gun truly as second nature, then you probably won't carry.
    Retired Marine, Retired School Teacher, Independent voter, Goldwater Conservative.

  5. #34
    Member Array wlynn's Avatar
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    Always carry, never tell

    Kudos to Calmp9 from bottom of page three and wjh2657 right above here. Get comfortable, experiment, get more comfortable, and carry, practice, carry, carry, carry. I've ended up 90% of the time with a 85ul in Nemesis pocket holster meant for a Kel-tec .32. The point is, adjust until your daily carry is your DAILY CARRY.
    Too much of a good thing is not enough... member of WVCDL and NRA

  6. #35
    VIP Member Array Tubby45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by calmp9 View Post
    I don't mean to be harsh here, but going around poking your nose in other people's business, especially strangers, can get you into a world of trouble. It's none of your business if people have a CCW permit or whether they carry on a regular basis. We all have our reasons for getting a permit and some of us will carry all the time and some won't. That's it. Eventually, somebody is going to interpret your "outgoing personality" as an invasion of privacy. Even if I knew you, I would. Very few people know that I have a CCW permit and that's the way I want it. I conceal my firearm, keep my mouth shut and pray everyday that I don't have to use it. What I don't get is why people have to go around hinting or even flat out declaring that they have a CCW permit. They act like little children who have a big secret and nobody to tell. People have to understand that a big part of concealment is not talking about it all the time.
    It's called the gun culture. You are obviously not a part of it.
    07/02 FFL/SOT since 2006

  7. #36
    Member Array Bando's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by calmp9 View Post
    I don't mean to be harsh here, but going around poking your nose in other people's business, especially strangers, can get you into a world of trouble. It's none of your business if people have a CCW permit or whether they carry on a regular basis. We all have our reasons for getting a permit and some of us will carry all the time and some won't. That's it. Eventually, somebody is going to interpret your "outgoing personality" as an invasion of privacy. Even if I knew you, I would. Very few people know that I have a CCW permit and that's the way I want it. I conceal my firearm, keep my mouth shut and pray everyday that I don't have to use it. What I don't get is why people have to go around hinting or even flat out declaring that they have a CCW permit. They act like little children who have a big secret and nobody to tell. People have to understand that a big part of concealment is not talking about it all the time.
    I think your missing his point. I don't think it's prying to ask someone who shoots their handguns with you at a firing range if they carry their firearm. He clearly stated that he wanted to understand the reasoning behind going through the hoops and not carrying. It's not like he is asking the checkout lady at Walmart. He's not flagging down every person he sees to talk about ccw. These are two like-minded individuals, one who he knows already has a license to carry. He is at a firing range. He's not sharing a dirty secret or committing an invasion of privacy, or even being out of line. I have been asked this question while discussing firearms at work, with a firearm in my pocket, and of course I denied that I even had a license. Big deal, adults are allowed to lie. In response to the original question, I think the social attitude towards carrying(your doing something bad) and the very real(when first carrying) fear of being discovered stops many from carrying at all. I have talked to a couple of guys that were into the "coolness" factor but didn't want the responsibility or never followed through.
    The Problem: When stupid people do stupid things, smart people end up getting killed.

  8. #37
    Distinguished Member Array Squawker's Avatar
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    I'm a little more open about carrying than most here. My friends know, and I.ve discussed guns and CCW with some of my coworker. The results so far is that at least 1 person is going to get a CCW. My own opinion is that if I knew that I would be safe, I wouldn't bother. But take a look at the news- There are shootings at Fast Food places, home invasions, and even at church! There is absolutely no public place that you can go and be guaranteed that you're safe. My wife came home 2 years ago one afternoon, after being gone an hour. When she got home, she saw the front door had been opened (later seen to have been broken, and it was a heavy wooden door). A friend had a group of criminals break into his house beat up him and his wife, and tied them in chairs, ransacked the house, and set the house on fire. The only reason he survived is that the flames burned the ropes, allowing to get himself and his wife to safety. Regardless of how nice or upscale a place is, there is no guarantee that you're safe. So I carry everywhere that it's legal. My wife gave me a biometric safe that fits under the car seat. So, my gun will be safe as I go into the post office. My primary carry weapon is a 4 inch XD45, in a IWB holster. But it gets hot here in Vegas, and I don't always want a cover garment. Those times, I carry my Glock 26 in a pocket holster. No problem. I can bend over (ok, I can't with my arthritis, but if I could, I wouldn't be restricted by my gun from doing it). I can't think of ANYTHING that I can't do because I'm carrying. So, I carry everywhere I can do so legally. I respect each individual's choice to carry or not. But IMHO, there is no reason not to carry except that you don't want to.

  9. #38
    Member Array RevDerb's Avatar
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    This may have been one of the most interesting and enlightening threads that I have yet to read on any gun forum. Thank you all for your thoughtful input and for keeping your emotions under control (for the most part) in the process.
    ... whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one. (Luke 22:36b NASB)
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  10. #39
    VIP Member Array JonInNY's Avatar
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    Up here in liberal New York, I generally don't discuss it much with strangers, but at our range it's talked about frequently. Once I went to a client's home and saw a Kahr box on the table, so that opened up the discussion.

    BTW, I love the word "farrier". It's one you don't hear to often up here!
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch; Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
    -- Benjamin Franklin

  11. #40
    Member Array bameroni's Avatar
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    I recently acquired my firearms license and can legally carry a CCW but I'm still a newbie, learning (taking classes and practice shooting), and testing handguns presently to try and get what feels like it will work for me. Threads such as this one in this forum are helping me tremendously as I take the steps to make the defense of my family and myself more my responsibility. I have enough life experience (in my 50's now) to realize that bad things can occur in situations that you may never anticipate. Accordingly, I now feel as if I'm maintaining more awareness of things ALL of the time and am preparing myself for the time when I start carrying.

    I am prohibited from having any weapons where I work - on me or in my vehicle - and interestingly enough, it is my trips back & forth to work in which I am in what I consider my highest risk situations - quite a dilemma. I will do what I can do when I begin to carry.

    Thanks to all who contribute in this forum.
    Glock 26, Ruger LCR, Glock 19
    Non curo. Si metrum non habet, non est poema. "I don't care. If it doesn't rhyme, it isn't a poem."

  12. #41
    Member Array calmp9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tubby45 View Post
    It's called the gun culture. You are obviously not a part of it.
    I don't care about any culture. This is about defending my family and trying to stay alive.
    "[A]rms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. . . Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them."

    - Thomas Paine, Thoughts On Defensive War, 1775

  13. #42
    Member Array Slimz13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tubby45 View Post
    It's called the gun culture. You are obviously not a part of it.
    Speaking as someone who is enjoying this thread and does not wish it to deteriorate into mindless bickering, please be careful before making remarks that some could see as inflammatory.

    Quote Originally Posted by calmp9 View Post
    I don't care about any culture. This is about defending my family and trying to stay alive.
    I firmly agree. I am a vocal CCW advocate by choice. I spiritedly debate the topic of CCW more than most people talk about politics or their theology. To me, if i truly care about someone, it is recklessly irresponsible of me not to put reasonable pressure/informed encouragement on them to get a CCW and carry, among other goals.

    I FULLY RECOGNIZE that this puts me in unnecesary danger. In effect, i am advertising the fact that i carry to anyone who hears the conversation and can put 2 & 2 together.

    To me, this is all the more reason for me to be careful. I recognize the risk, but i am willing to accept it if it allows me to greatly enhance the safety of another.

    That is my PERSONAL CHOICE. What is not my choice, however is what unscrupulous people may do if they become aware of my weapon/permit. Thus, i am careful about who i talk to, and how i act. But, like elections, the future of CCW and the 2nd amendment will not be decided by me personally, but by millions of voters (best case scenario).

    I guess what i'm getting at is that you can choose how much you talk about your CCW, but it certainly can have negative side effects. It is called a CONCEALED carry permit for a reason.
    However, if we don't educate & make more allies, we allow more sheep and fewer rights. Where the perfect balance is will be up to each individual.


    Sorry for the rabbit trail...
    We are only as vulnerable as we are naive.

  14. #43
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    I know 5 people that have their permits and only one carries. The others only carry in thier cars on vacation, like roads outside of town are the only dangerous ones.
    Some get their permits just in case they want to take a gun somewhere, they can do it easier.
    When I first applied for mine, I got it for traveling. But i've carried every day since I got it.

  15. #44
    Member Array calmp9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slimz13 View Post
    Speaking as someone who is enjoying this thread and does not wish it to deteriorate into mindless bickering, please be careful before making remarks that some could see as inflammatory.



    I firmly agree. I am a vocal CCW advocate by choice. I spiritedly debate the topic of CCW more than most people talk about politics or their theology. To me, if i truly care about someone, it is recklessly irresponsible of me not to put reasonable pressure/informed encouragement on them to get a CCW and carry, among other goals.

    I FULLY RECOGNIZE that this puts me in unnecesary danger. In effect, i am advertising the fact that i carry to anyone who hears the conversation and can put 2 & 2 together.

    To me, this is all the more reason for me to be careful. I recognize the risk, but i am willing to accept it if it allows me to greatly enhance the safety of another.

    That is my PERSONAL CHOICE. What is not my choice, however is what unscrupulous people may do if they become aware of my weapon/permit. Thus, i am careful about who i talk to, and how i act. But, like elections, the future of CCW and the 2nd amendment will not be decided by me personally, but by millions of voters (best case scenario).

    I guess what i'm getting at is that you can choose how much you talk about your CCW, but it certainly can have negative side effects. It is called a CONCEALED carry permit for a reason.
    However, if we don't educate & make more allies, we allow more sheep and fewer rights. Where the perfect balance is will be up to each individual.


    Sorry for the rabbit trail...

    As CCW permits, we have to be careful in how we conduct ourselves. The general public is afraid of us and it only takes one small incident to set them off. It's a normal reaction. People fear what they don't understand. If there was some way to educate people about concealed carry, some of the fear would disappear. Unfortunately, there are anti-gun lobbyists who are never going to let this happen. It's going to take millions of us to express our beliefs at the polls when the time comes.
    "[A]rms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. . . Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them."

    - Thomas Paine, Thoughts On Defensive War, 1775

  16. #45
    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RevDerb View Post
    This may have been one of the most interesting and enlightening threads that I have yet to read on any gun forum. Thank you all for your thoughtful input and for keeping your emotions under control (for the most part) in the process.
    That's awesome! And I feel the same way.

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