Do you carry at Church? - Page 6

Do you carry at Church?

This is a discussion on Do you carry at Church? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Absolutely, every Sunday. As many stated before, legal in Texas, and no need to advise anyone....

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Thread: Do you carry at Church?

  1. #76
    Senior Member Array Camjr's Avatar
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    Absolutely, every Sunday. As many stated before, legal in Texas, and no need to advise anyone.
    One Riot, One Ranger. Long live the Republic of Texas.

    JOIN THE NRA AND DO IT TODAY!!


  2. #77
    OD*
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    Quote Originally Posted by exprt9 View Post
    In Ohio it is required to have permission from the church to carry in the church. Being Catholic, it's an automatic NO since every catholic church I've been at are all posted. I just leave it in the car locked up in a lock box.
    You might want to show your Priest 2263 thru 2266 in the Catechism of the Catholic Church;

    Self Defense - The Principle of Double Effect (2263-2264)
    The act of self-defense is not an exception to this prohibition. "The act of self-defense can have a double effect: the preservation of one's own life and the killing of an aggressor. The one is intended, the other is not" (St. Thomas Aquinas).

    Love for oneself is a fundamental principle of morality and defending one's life is not murder even if it results in the death of another.

    "If a man, in self-defense, uses more than necessary violence, it is unlawful, whereas if he repels force with moderation, his defense will be lawful" (St. Thomas Aquinas).

    The Duty of Self-Defense (2265-2266)
    Legitimate defense can be a grave duty for those responsible for the lives of others. Because the unjust aggressor against the common good must be made harmless, legitimate authority has the right to use arms to repel aggressors.

    Because the state must curb harmful activity, legitimate authority has the right and duty to inflict punishment proportionate to the offense. This punishment has two effects, primarily to redress the disorder and secondarily to bring about the correction of the guilty party.
    Do you carry at Church?
    Yes, I even have a designated pistol for Mass.

    Sky Pilot likes this.
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Terrorists: They hated you yesterday, they hate you today, and they will hate you tomorrow. End the cycle of hatred, don’t give them a tomorrow."

  3. #78
    Distinguished Member Array ArmyCop's Avatar
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    Cleared with the Pastor? Couple Church's I visit the Pastor often has one in his own pocket. He doesn't expect to need it in Church but has no reason to leave it anywhere else cause he CC's everywhere too.

    Also - Peter was "packin" while with Jesus. Weapon of the day - short sword - Used it to smack the Roman Soldier's ear.

    Oh, and yes - I carry at Church. Read the news - never know what some loonie might do.
    For God, Family and Country!

  4. #79
    Distinguished Member Array coffeecup's Avatar
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    My "piece" goes where I go. If it isnt welcome, then I am not either.

  5. #80
    VIP Member Array Paco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OD View Post
    Yes, I even have a designated pistol for Mass.

    Very nice grips!
    "Don't hit a man if you can possibly avoid it; but if you do hit him, put him to sleep." - Theodore Roosevelt

    -Paco
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  6. #81
    OD*
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    Thank you, Sir.
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Terrorists: They hated you yesterday, they hate you today, and they will hate you tomorrow. End the cycle of hatred, don’t give them a tomorrow."

  7. #82
    Senior Member Array luvmyglock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OLYXDGUY View Post
    I carry in church as well at I know at least a couple others that do..

    ALWAYS PREPARD ALWAYS READY!!

    No ones going to know anyways..
    At least a couple others huh John? There something you aren't telling me??
    EVIL PREVAILS WHEN GOOD MEN FAIL TO ACT.

  8. #83
    VIP Member Array Ridgeline's Avatar
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    Wow, long thread... but a great read. And to answer "yes" I too carry in church. I am also one of the staff ministers and along with three other guys we have at any time at least six weapons to protect our fellowship. Since we by design do not want to form an official security team (legal issues) we practice together often as our "what if" group. We set at pre-determined locations in the church and watch various door and entry ways, including the parking lots. Reborn and I are both certified Texas CHL instructors, he has a 20 year LEO background, we both shoot competition and also teach tactical and defensive concepts at our private range (many withing our church too). If you didnt know better you would think that our church was located next to the OK Corral, and Doc was our Pastor (he is VERY pro 2-A, and a former Marine Sgt who earned a Purple Heart during the Tet offensive. As others have already said our churches today are prime targets for violence. It could be the crazed drugged up punk from down the street, the mad ex-husband who is looking for his wife, maybe the physco who has nothing to live for, but the one who frightens me most today are the guys who are trained terrorist who think they have 72 virgins waiting for them somewhere. If we as Sheepdogs don't train and plan for the what-if we could face that menace in reality and not know what do do.

    Thanks to each of you who have decided to make a line in the sand, and shout "not on my watch".
    Last edited by Ridgeline; September 29th, 2008 at 10:46 PM. Reason: <sp>
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  9. #84
    Member Array MnemonicMonkey's Avatar
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    Yes. Don't need to clear it with the pastor here, but I did hear one of the guys discussing when they were going to the range. . .

    762- I do sound once a month and play drums the rest of the time. No problems there. I'm sure I've printed here or there reaching for a cable, but I normally have so many tools here and there, I doubt anyone would think twice about it.

    My wife is the only one that knows I carry. I still get that little grin when she bumps it- and if I have my arm around her, she'll use the grip as an armrest. Some of those in our small group know me well enough to at least suspect it, but seeing as one of the guys asked me for suggestions for a HD shotgun, we're a pretty like-minded group.
    "Lord, help me to be the person my dog thinks I am."

  10. #85
    VIP Member Array miklcolt45's Avatar
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    Well, along with a few others so far, I am the Senior Pastor.

    I normally carry every place I legally can. Since we have a pre-school, my attorney's advice is that I could not carry during school hours (when students and teachers are present), but good to go the rest of the time. (Does not include Sunday School.)

    With that, I have not been carrying on Sunday morning because
    I believe the kydex clips on my K&D Dakota Defender might just cause someone to ask questions. I wear slacks and a Hawaiian shirt on Sundays in the contemporary service, and a pulpit robe during the traditional.

    Our denomination, which wouldn't know a sane idea if it hit 'em in the keister (Hebrew for, well, you get the idea), is officially anti-guns. I have tried to get an answer as to whether or not that counts for anything. I also have tried to find out what insurance/risk management would do if someone set up an official 'safety team' which included firearms and training, but I am concerned about getting on too many radar screens.
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliott

    The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.
    Albert Einstein

  11. #86
    wj
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    I always carry everywhere legal. In Indiana, church carry is legal. IF the church has a Sunday school/preschool-school etc. then state law does not permit one to carry on the grounds, in the building of a SCHOOL. If there are students at the school or not, a school is a school 24/7. This situation creates a legal problem for the licensed armed, at church person. If someone (our prosecutor) wants to charge you then you are looking at a felony! Even though the school is a Sunday school prior to worship time, it is still a school. As a retired clergy person I wish the law was "reasonable" but it is not. Always carry, Never tell. Do I have a problem with licensed people with a firearm? No problem, as I am one of them. I know what is out there as I also worked for Juvenile Court for 13 years!!!!

  12. #87
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    I'm curious, and of course IANAL, but has the "Sunday School" prohibition ever been tested, or explicitly forbidden by statute (outside of general church prohibitions)?

    I question the mere presence of Sunday School classes being considered a "school" in the eyes of the law. Anybody can call anything a "school," so I expect the laws actually refer to a state or privately funded institution of learning that meets state education requirements. Some churches DO have such schools or preschools, but overall I would say not very many. Nearly ALL have Sunday School classes, though, and I doubt those would be covered under the same statutes regarding firearms at schools.

    If one were to interpret the "school" statutes so strictly, then I have to expect that someone, somewhere, will try to argue that private homes where children are home-schooled should also be off-limits to firearms. While silly on its face, this would actually be a more reasonable argument IMO than ordinary Sunday School classes, considering that home-schooling is accepted for many states' education requirements.

    Any legal eagles have an opinion on the matter?
    David

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  13. #88
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    You're darn straight, I carry at church. Recall the shootings in the church in Knoxville, TN just a few months ago.
    Now, one of the biggest churches in the region is holding not one, but several CCW classes.
    It truly biblical, the notion of self defense.

    I was sort of squeemish about it....carrying anything more than the P32 to church. But at a recent gunshow, I ran into one of our church officials who showed me his ankle holster he just purchased...."now I have two weapons on me at church". I then asked him about being worried about the possibility of someone putting their hand on my side and feeling the gun. He replied "forget that and just PACK".
    I felt relieved instantly.

    A good friend at work took me on in debate about God being mad about me carrying a gun to church. Somehow God would be angry about that.
    I responded that God could care less about some inanimate object [a knife, pen, coin, etc.] on my person. What He cares about is my relationship with Him.

  14. #89
    VIP Member Array Ridgeline's Avatar
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    Interesting point regarding "Sunday School" thing ... perhaps we should all change to the more updated version of "Bible Study".
    "Eternity is Too Long to be Wrong"

    Texas CHL Instructor & Holder & Utah CFP Instructor
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  15. #90
    wj
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    dmorris68, Yes the "church carry" issue is a problem in Indiana. There was a test case the "French case Indiana 2003 Supreme Court defined "school property" rather liberally. A church, that holds a quasi school - preschool - Sunday school CAN be interpreted to be a "school property" issue for the licensed CCW in this place. That is the only case that comes to my attention but IANAL either.

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