Use of your own weapon against you...
This is a discussion on Use of your own weapon against you... within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; 2 thoughts. Either press the attack or flee. Which ever is the best course of action at the time. If you get a pelvis shot ...
December 17th, 2005 09:52 AM
2 thoughts. Either press the attack or flee. Which ever is the best course of action at the time. If you get a pelvis shot and circle , chances are the bG will not bea ble to effectively attack.
December 17th, 2005 12:06 PM
The firearm is the tool in hand & the human being is the total weapon.
Ideally, first initial shot placement is the key & obviously better training & mindset conditioning would go a long way toward solving subsequent..."Huh? ~ Failure To Drop" issues on the part of the Bad Guy.
One advantage that the modern truly Bad Guy may have over most Police Officers is that they have been shot before & have survived the shooting (wear the entry/exit battle scars like a body tattoo) & thus are already somewhat subliminally pre~programmed to know that they can continue to attempt to kill after being shot.
Additionally some are mind~numbed by drugs and some honestly don't care if they live or die...as long as they can take somebody else with them.
Reading the FBI report shows that those Good Guys seemed to be pre~conditioned to thinking that any HIT is synonymous with WILL STOP and it just is not.
It's a grim reality that the bad guy might not STOP with any "Less Than Lethal" hit and the Good Guy MUST NOT be stopped with any less than fatal injury to his/her/body/person.
The Good Guy must not stop or "hesitate & evaluate" any injury/bullet wound should he/she be hit or stabbed or gravely injured.
The exact instant that you are injured & your assailant is still alive...then (in that very same instant) you have just bought your ticket either to Hell or to the Pearly Gates.
You just bought & paid for the ticket.
If you ultimately "Take The Trip Or Not" then depends on if you can terminate (by any means possible) who is trying to kill you.
For me...I am pulling out all the stops for my chance to "stick around" until my personal pumper stops pumping. Even if that means that my last Earthly Action will be that I have to bite the Bad Guys jugular vein in half if I have no other "metal tools" available.
It's important to pre~acknowledge the reality (in advance) that you could possibly die fighting hard to save your own life.
It's important to do that now or soon.
There are much worse ways to die & many more personally embarrassing ways to exit Planet Earth.
I would rather die fighting hard to save my ass than to drop over while unplugging my toaster or falling off my porch roof trying to clean leaves out of my house gutter.
I honestly feel that it's important for everybody to come to grips with the stark reality of the possibility of their untimely "early & unplanned" demise. Only then will you be able to accomplish everything possible to prevent same from happening in a SHTF situation. That is just my opinion on that.
None of us are here with a written guarantee for a peaceful ripe old age or a peaceful death "Due To Natural Causes"
You know I could keep typing for DAYS on this subject...STOP QKShooter!!!...No More! Spare Us Please!
Oh Geesh....I am really sidetracking myself and rambling on into deeper issues than I should in this post.
I'll shut up now...before I end up writing a book.
December 18th, 2005 12:14 AM
I'm really new to the board, but I will add my opinion.
Blindly counting on any type of martial arts training is just as bad as counting on a specific carry weapon for safety. And I have been training in MA for years. The weapon is the mind and its ability to bring to bear tools available to the body to dominate a situation. The weapon is NOT the latest sho-dan, ni-dan etc... in mac dojo karate or sig HK nickel plated yada yada yada.
It is the mind and the will to dominate/survive. After that, it's the training to use the tools availiable.
I hope I am never complacent w/ the fact that I carry or the fact that I train in MA. And that I never rest on the laurels of my carry weapon or my certificates in martial arts. It is the unbridled will to survive/dominate/destroy that will allow someone to go home alive.
December 18th, 2005 12:37 AM
Being a retention/disarming instructor certified as both civilian and LEO, my take is this is not enough for what you are asking, it is part of the equation. The other parts which will assist in defending your gun are empty hand tactics and ground tactics beings you most likely will go to the ground. Weapon retention skills work better from leverage then strength based tactics IMHO although some of the technques I learned in DT training for LEO based their techniques more on strength then leverage.
If possible when firing is always be moving, make the bad guys effort of getting you as difficult as possible. Practice speed reloads, I practice more with a 1911 then my Glocks because you have a narrower area to place the magazine. If you can do the 1911 then you can do just about any pistol. Getting a new mag into your gun can make the difference between the possible death to successfully defending yourself.
ACCJT Certified LEO DT Instructor
December 19th, 2005 10:53 PM
Thanks everyone...good replies, and as always, more food for thought.
noli nothis permittere te terere...
December 20th, 2005 11:39 AM
As stated earlier, my options were to run, use my empty gun as a striking tool, or use my knife. I'll only use any weapon/weaponless hand-to-hand if I absolutely have to. My lack of desire for physical confrontation has nothing to do with an "inability" to "change my mood." I've had spinal fusion. You bend me backwards far enough, I'll die. Therefore, if I have the option of running first, I'll take that.
Betty, For weapon retention,I find that the closer to your body you hold your weapon,the harder it is for a much larger/stronger person to take it away from you.(I train with a couple of monsters) Makin' shots held this close is another thing. Also,I have trained with alot of women. Several as small,or possibly smaller that yourself. I intentionally get them really pissed off. When they got mad,they got GD mean. They get agressive and very, "in your face", fast. I would respectfully suggest that you work on the mood change thing. You don't have to stand toe to toe and have a boxing match with them. Get mad,get mean,come up with a blade"outta nowhere" and do allot of very fast damage. ( carry a streight blade if allowed by law)I tell my female students"make 'em pay". Some of the ladies absolutely amaze me. If your weapon is empty, even if you have a reload on you belt or in you pocket,and the BG is real close,or has physical contact with you,consider dropping your weapon and grabbing your blade. I have had my training partner actually try to reach down and pick up a weapon that the slide is locked back. With blade in hand---he's toast.
"Americans have the will to resist because you have weapons. If you don't have a gun, freedom of speech has no power." - Yoshimi Ishikawa
December 20th, 2005 04:34 PM
Concur with all the statements about the importance of movement (preferrably off axis), cute acronym I picked up somewhere on the web (maybe even here): MOVE: Motionless Operators Ventilate Easily
December 20th, 2005 05:05 PM
Distance and cover are your friends, make use of both , that being said repeatidly if a BG gets close enough to wrestle me for my handgun i will have allready emptyed it ( or jammed it firing into him during the scuffle ) i now consider plan b. ( either a ny reload ( a back up gun ) if i am carrying one or i will cut him 3 ways , fast, deep , and continuisly howeaver if you keep distance , and cover in mind the possibility of anything like this happening is far less than you would think looking at fbi stats ( YOU dont have to effect arrests, or approch the bad guy like LE does nor should he know your armed untill he " see's the light " i personaly wont normaly interviene in a situation other than call 911 so my handgun is not displayed untill presented and shot just food for thought , some will disagree and your mileage may vary
December 20th, 2005 07:53 PM
One thing to consider re: the posts on martial arts/ combattives.
Unarmed combat training, even though generally outclassed in an armed confrontation, is an outstanding way to develop the physical toughness and warrior mentality required to prevail in a confrontation.
You can't really get shot, but you can really get kicked in the teeth. Combattives help develop confidence and aggression required to win in a do-or-die situation.
Many here will not like the word "aggression", but while it is wise to avoid a fight of possible once it starts you have to put everything you have into it. Somebody is leaving feet-first, and if you can't put aside the veneer of civilization and tap into your survival instinct it might be you.
"I am a Soldier. I fight where I am told, and I win where I fight." GEN George S. Patton, Jr.
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