Kimber on TV

I was watching the ID channel last night around 2am (I work at night and had a break) and I was watching a show then during the commercial break there was a small segment, about 3 minutes long, about a man who was walking through the woods and was approached by another man and 2 dogs. The man that was approached shot and killed the man with the dogs after he said the man came towards him "swinging". And as the show/commercial (I'm still not sure what it was) was talking about the man shooting him with a .45 three times they showed a Kimber pistol. You could even see the logo, it look like one of the photos Kimber has on their website. Then it continued to how the man who did the shooting contacted the police and told what happened about how he felt he was defending him self, then nothing happened and he went home thinking it was over. Then later he was charged with murder and sentenced to, I believe, life in prison.

Has anyone see this, I know it was late when I was watching it, but I am wondering what this actually was. I doubt it was a commercial, but it was in no relation to the show I was watching at the time.

Or if anyone has heard of this case and maybe know some more details, I found it interesting.

How strange, this sounds remarkably similar to an incident involving an Arizona man. He was walking through the woods when he encountered an unstable individual with dogs. One or both dogs attacked him and he shot at least one of them. He claimed he was then attacked by the dog's owner and forced to shoot him. He was convicted partially because prosecuters convinced the jury that his 10mm pistol was too powerful to be suitable for self defense. Don't know if the gun in question was a Kimber, but I don't believe they make a 10mm. Strange coincidence.

You know what you may be right, now thinking about it I think it was a 10mm, sorry about the mess up.

But in the story on TV I don't think any of the dogs were shot, but again I could be wrong.

Google the following: "HaroldFish, 10mm, AZ"

And yes, Kimber does make a 10mm, but I don't know if that's what Mr. Fish had.

Slim & JD have it right. Fish in AZ walking out in isolated area, when guy with 2 dogs came by, the dogs went after Fish. Fish shot the dog and the guy allegedly went crazy seeing his dog shot and went after Fish in a rage. Fish shot and killed him. The gun used by Fish was a 10mm pistol. The guy killed supposedly had history of mental/anger problems, but this was disallowed into evidence. The prosecutor made an issue about the caliber of the gun Fish used, alleging it was too big and that Fish was just hoping to get to kill someone.

If 10mm is too big for self defense, I sure hope I don't get in trouble with my 11.43mm!

Joe

Quote:

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Originally Posted by raytracer

If 10mm is too big for self defense, I sure hope I don't get in trouble with my 11.43mm!

Joe

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what kind of howitzer is that?

11.43mm= .45 inch

My CCW instructor didn't record qualification scores - just pass/fail. He advised us that, depending on your score an overzealous prosecutor would refer to you as either a "deadly marksman" or "barely able to qualify".

My lawyer advises to carry the same or similar type ammunition as local police to prevent a persecutor... er, prosecutor making some similar grandstanding B.S. over ammunition type.

Joe

Perhaps he should have shot the dogs, and held the attacker at bay... An unarmed man being shot by another man is hard to defend in court. Women can get away with it much easier.

The scenario was covered pretty well in my Tac I class.

i was reading about this in a magazine. the man with the dogs was also carrying a screwdriver but it was disallowed into evidence because the man who shot him did not know at the time he had it until after. the magazine article stated that the shooter would have kept a larger caliber pistol due to the area, and the wild animals he was likely to encounter while hiking. it also said his attorney did a horrible job at trial and a better might have kept him a free man. (just what i remember off the top of my head)

im gonna dig that article out and see if i can post a little more info

EDIT: a quick summary of the article

Quote:

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Harold Fish, a retired school teacher, had been hiking near Strawberry Az. when he ran afoul of a violent man with two vicious dogs at a trailhead. the big canines, hank and sheeba, had a long history of antisocial behaviwor, with hank in piticular attacking humans.

when the unrestrained dogs came after Fish barking ferociously, Fish drew his legally carried pistol and turned them away with warning shots. their owner, a homeless man with a history of violence and mental illness, Grant Kuenzli, began screaming wildly that he would kill Fish and ran towards him, arms flailing menacingly. when he could wait no longer, Fish fired 3 shots, all of which hit kuenzli in the thorax area. Kuenzli died of his wounds. there were no other witnesses.

In mid June of 2006, a jury convicted Fish of second degree murder, and the trial judge sentenced him to 10 years in prison...... ..... One juror said that part of the decision to convict Fish was the prosecutions harping on Fish useing an unnecessarily powerful gun with hollow point bullets. this convinced part of the jury that Fish's choice to carry a 10mm Semi auto with JHP ammmo was indication of malicious intent....

Kuenzli was armed with a screwdriver but because Fish had not seen it, the jury was told kuenzli was unarmed.

...... it is quite common for hikers, fisherman and other outdoors people who arent porposly hunting to carry a powerful handgun for self defence.

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Combat Handguns, June 2008, Vol. 29, # 4

it goes on to give details of the case and more of kuenzli's history of rape and kidnapping...

I hope SOMEBODY is working to try and get this guy a new trial, he really got the shaft.

Talk about a corrupt Justice System. If this is likely what we can all expect to face in the event we have to use our sidearms, we might as well just let the phsychos kill us with their screwdrivers and dogs. Total BS.

This type of case is exactly why I keep saying carry guns should be equipped with audio and video, same as a Taser. If you're all alone in the woods and you shoot an unarmed man (for a valid reason), well, no matter the reason it's gonna be almost impossible to convince a jury that you're completely innocent.

I'd like to see small, unobtrusive audio/video unit that would automatically come on as soon as gun is in hand. I know I'm gonna catch some flack for saying this, but if and when viable audio/video units become available, then everyone should be REQUIRED to have one installed (private citizenry AND LE).........

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it wouldnt be bad, but look at what TV shows use, a little box (about the size of a box of cigs.) on your belt, a mic wired up to your tie or collar, plus video, it would be just about impossible without a backpack IMHO.

think of how many people leave their guns at home because its too heave or the holster isnt comfortable, let alone all that stuff. no one would carry.

its not a bad idea, but the costs would be crazy. i can barely afford a gun, let alone all this AV equipment to go with it.