The dishonest way...

The dishonest way...

This is a discussion on The dishonest way... within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; So i've been trying to get my girlfriend of 2 years to to take her personal security seriously, to which i have been everything short ...

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Thread: The dishonest way...

  1. #1
    Member Array Slimz13's Avatar
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    Mantua, OH

    The dishonest way...

    So i've been trying to get my girlfriend of 2 years to to take her personal security seriously, to which i have been everything short of outright laughed at. Her college has had a rash of serial rapes and brazen sexual assaults and shes still playing the "it isn't going to happen to me" game.

    So she calls me up crying today because she found a video that shocked and disturbed her so badly that suddenly, she really wants to get into self defense.

    Here's the kicker: The video (Link: Columbine Security Footage) is fake. I've seen it before and while i think its a pretty accurate representation of how things went there, I can't bring myself to tell her its a fake. Shes FINALLY starting to take things seriously and I don't want to upset the apple cart.

    That said, what do you think of using a video like this as a tool to visually demonstrate to someone the need for a CCW? What about in general, outside of this particular situation? Bear in mind that unless you represent this as actual footage, it looses part of its impact..

    Penny for your thoughts...
    We are only as vulnerable as we are naive.

  2. #2
    VIP Member Array AZ Husker's Avatar
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    Dec 2007
    She's already made up her mind...go with it.
    Treat me good, I'll treat you better. Treat me bad, I'll treat you worse.

  3. #3
    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    Dec 2007
    Fayetteville, AR
    Ditto. Don't ruin it. When she's had enough of that video, have her check this one out.
    YouTube - Criminals For Gun Control part 1 Home Invasion

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  5. #4
    VIP Member Array JerryM's Avatar
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    Dec 2004
    There is no substitute for honesty regardless of how she might take it.
    I have taught my children that someone or something can take away everything you have except your integrity. You have to give that up if you lose it.

    If your argument is good it will pass on its own withoug dishonesty.


  6. #5
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    Array Thumper's Avatar
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    Jun 2006
    Dayton, Nevada
    Fake is right in the sense it's not actual footage but what's in the video did happen. So I'd say no harm to let it be.
    ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!

    "A superior Operator is best defined as someone who uses his superior
    judgement to keep himself out of situations that would require a display of his
    superior skills."

  7. #6
    Senior Member Array MilitaryPower's Avatar
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    Sep 2006
    The video looked pretty realistic to me. Just taking your word that it is fake, what kind of wacko would make such a video? At least some good has come from it.

    If that is what it looks like when it is played out, think of the horror of it in real life.

    You're in a tough spot. Obviously, not telling her is getting to the desired end, regardless of the means. The old utilitarian theory of ethics; for the greater good. BUT, she should know IMO. Let her read where it is said that it is fake, so she can see for herself, and in the process, "stumble" upon more actual shootings.
    Gun control can be blamed in part for allowing 9/11 to happen.
    "Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum" (Latin)- "If you want peace, prepare for war".

  8. #7
    Member Array svinfinity45's Avatar
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    I would say theres no harm done and it's making her safer. Not to side track, but adding to Ram Rods post, when I went to that link I also saw two videos in the side bar, one is 911 without gun in home invasion, and the second is 911 caller WITH gun in home invasion, they are 911 recordings of the crimes, and obviously the call WITH gun turns out better for the victim. She would listen to those also.

  9. #8
    Distinguished Member Array XD 45's Avatar
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    Aug 2007
    Where ever the government says go
    Just let her make her own choice
    Glock 23, Mossberg 590A, M&P 15 Rossi 641, RIA 1911,Sig 320(EDC)

    If You Want To Know The Mind Of A Man Listen To His Words

  10. #9
    Member Array jmiked's Avatar
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    May 2005
    SE AZ Border County
    Tell Her that it is a recreation but, accurate in what occured. Honest and convincing at the same time.
    William Wallace
    Do not stand between Me and Mine!!

  11. #10
    Array QKShooter's Avatar
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    The Vid you are talking about was a reenactment of an actual horrific event so if that was graphic and illustrative enough to have changed her mind then so be it.
    It does not really matter what changed her mind or what altered her mindset for the better.
    It's really no different than watching a powerful training video.

    I'd just go with the flow.

  12. #11
    VIP Member Array KenpoTex's Avatar
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    Jun 2005
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    take "yes" for an answer and be glad she finally seems to have woke up and smelled the coffee.
    "Being a predator isn't always comfortable but the only other option is to be prey. That is not an acceptable option." ~Phil Messina

    If you carry in Condition 3, you have two empty chambers. One in the weapon...the other between your ears.

    Matt K.

  13. #12
    Senior Member Array Divebum47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JerryM View Post
    There is no substitute for honesty regardless of how she might take it.
    I have taught my children that someone or something can take away everything you have except your integrity. You have to give that up if you lose it.

    If your argument is good it will pass on its own withoug dishonesty.
    That says it all. If "you" are trying to motivate a person to do almost anything predicated on dishonesty, ultimately it's doomed to failure. Maybe not now, but eventually. I do a lot of work with kids through 4-H, 4-H Shooting Sports, High School Leadership, Youth Group and so on - probably 1000 hours or more of volunteer work per year. And one theme I try to stress is honesty. Makes it hard when the role models kids see treat honesty as a convenience rather than a basic value.

    My somewhat unsolicited advice is to be completely honest about the video. But reinforce your concern at the same time. I've been going through the same thing with my wife and have come to the conclusion that it is I who will have to protect her. But there are no false pretenses there, and no false sense of security. If she is going to get involved in self defense, let it because SHE wants to, not because she feels YOU want her to.

    FWIW, my 2 centavos (the majority of which the government will take and give to someone else
    "Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups"

  14. #13
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    People make decisions for all sorts of reasons. Absolute fact often takes awhile to swallow in such a way that it does any good. IMO, that's one thing that media can do: summarize the message. Of course, falsification of points, here and there, can result in propaganda that completely and utterly changes how someone will see it.

    But if we spent the time correcting every factual error in every such input others get, that's all we'd be doing.

    If it galls you, answer this for yourself: is the gist of the message true, in terms of the risk, the threat, the result of what happened? Are there in fact such threats as depicted in that "dishonest" portrayal? Are those basic risks real? (Forget for a moment whether each specific fact is the whole truth, or not.)

    Decide accordingly.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: Why the Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).

  15. #14
    Senior Member Array press1280's Avatar
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    Sep 2007
    For some, reading about a massacre is a world apart from seeing it on video(even if it's a re-creation). The events were real, so she shouldn't all of a sudden drop it if she knows the video was not authentic.
    On a negative note college campuses are usually targets of low-lifes who know most effective weapons are banned from campus. Maybe point her towards SCCC, hopefully they have a chapter on her campus.
    Unfortunately, women are the usual targets of violence, and many don't seem to think it'll happen to them until it's too late. They need to be carrying more then men, however, the vast majority of permits are issued to men. More women are waking up, but there's still work to be done.
    "The right of the whole people, old and young, men, women and boys, and not militia only, to keep and bear arms of every description, not such merely as are used by the militia, shall not be infringed, curtailed, or broken in upon, in the smallest degree..."
    Nunn v. State GA 1848

  16. #15
    Ex Member Array jahwarrior72's Avatar
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    Apr 2006
    the raggedy edge
    keep your mouth shut. not telling her isn't exactly lying; if seeing a staged video inspires her to take personal resonsibility for her safety, it's as good as the truth. personal resonsibility is a moral imperative.

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