CCW Permit Holder Pulls Gun At Soccer Game (Merged) - Page 3

CCW Permit Holder Pulls Gun At Soccer Game (Merged)

This is a discussion on CCW Permit Holder Pulls Gun At Soccer Game (Merged) within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I do not think he could justify pulling his Gun! That was Stupid! I have been in similar situations , just take the cussing and ...

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Thread: CCW Permit Holder Pulls Gun At Soccer Game (Merged)

  1. #31
    Senior Member Array preachertim's Avatar
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    I do not think he could justify pulling his Gun! That was Stupid!
    I have been in similar situations , just take the cussing and smile knowing that sooner or later he will get his. To Justify it that will have to be some Story.
    Why Would A Preacher ever need a Gun? Its Not for the Sheep , its for the Wolves!

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  2. #32
    Senior Member Array rolyat63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post
    What is missing from this discussion is the hypothetical actions of the other man, who would be legally justified for drawing and stopping the threat with a minimum (a magazine?) of lead in the torso.

    If someone points a gun at me they will receive a swift response.

    The point being as more and more people carry guns, some of whom will be uncontrolled hot heads, we may very well see a retard at a kid's soccer game geting shot.

    I wonder what the score of the game was?
    WRT the other guy's legal standing to defend with deadly force: the other guy was Burke's assailant, not eligible for a clean SD.
    rolyat63
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  3. #33
    Ex Member Array FN1910's Avatar
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    I think calling him a turd is an insult to turds everywhere. We had an incident like that around here a few years ago at a little league baseball game where the guns came out. That field is no longer available for the kids to enjoy.

  4. #34
    VIP Member Array Supertac45's Avatar
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    How big was the coach's husband? What did he say? Lots of unanswered questions here. What's the law in Texas on protecting yourself when in fear of great bodily harm or more?
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  5. #35
    VIP Member Array cphilip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grady View Post
    I'm NOT giving Burke a pass for pulling his gun, but it sounds to me like the husband started the physical assault by pushing Burke.
    Maybe... but Burke started the altercation. So he was not "without fault". And it sounds like the husband was attempting to get in between the two but I am just imagining that from what I can read. If so, were it my wife, I would feel justified in coming between someone irate, yelling and close and seemingly out of control in my Wifes face.

    Its perplexing. But he obviously had every opportunity to walk away. He could have avoided it. So he was not without fault in the altercation so therefore not eligible to invoke self defense. From the point he started arguing with her, he lost that advantage.

    He fails at least one of the three main tenants and possibly two.

    1) in a place he had a right to be (Pass)

    2) Without fault (fail)

    3) Felt his life was in danger (skeptical of this)

  6. #36
    Member Array Rusty Bouquett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geo2020 View Post

    It seems like tons of people are shocked to learn you can't draw just because a bigger guy threatens or shoves you.

    If any reasonable person in the same situation believed he was about to suffer loss of life or great bodily harm then pulling the gun is legal against a larger attacker. But I agree that instigating an altercation is not going to go down well with a jury.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Supertac45 View Post
    How big was the coach's husband? What did he say? Lots of unanswered questions here. What's the law in Texas on protecting yourself when in fear of great bodily harm or more?
    Based on current TX law, he has no reasonable claim to self-defense, based on the article. Regardless of the size of the husband, he can't claim fear of death or severe bodily injury, simply for being pushed. Now, if the husband had pushed him, then jumped him and started pounding on his head, that's a different story. The husband's push, is considered "Assault by Contact", a class C misdemeanor, punishable by a max. $200 fine. If the husband would have continued the assault, it would have changed to "Asault with Bodily Injury", a class "B" misdemeanor, on up to a felony depending on the injury. The guy with the gun would have to have been beaten badly to be in a position to use the threat of deadly force.

    In this case the coach's husband would not be charged, because this situation was escalated, by the pulling of the gun. If the guy had walked away and called the police, he could have filed the class C assault charge, at the DA's office the next day. Unless he had some unusual situation or medical condition, where he could have been seriously injured, crippled etc... from being pushed, he has no right to escalate to threat of deadly force. Being fairly young (25 I think) I don't think he can make that claim.
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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Bouquett View Post
    If any reasonable person in the same situation believed he was about to suffer loss of life or great bodily harm then pulling the gun is legal against a larger attacker.
    Good in theory, but you better be really beaten up where there are visible injuries, cuts, etc... or you will end up sitting in a cell. The injury photos will play to your story to the jury, otherwise you're sunk

    Your statement would apply in only a few situations... A guy in a wheelchair, who could be easily crippled if thrown from his wheelchair... an elderly person... a woman... A jury would have no trouble believing these people were in fear of great bodily harm or death, but not a healthy 25 yr. old guy.

    He would have a tough time claiming disparity of size as a justification for using the threat of deadly force, in response to a simple assault with no apparent injury. I'm thinking the prison guard would have stepped in on his behalf, as he did for the unarmed husband, if that was the case.
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  9. #39
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    Quote:
    "I am not in favor of concealed weapons," Obama said. "I think that creates a potential atmosphere where more innocent people could (get shot during) altercations." - Sen. Barack Obama, April 2, 2008
    Source - Sportsmen for Obama? - Gun Control Quotes



    You had better believe that if the Senate gets "the magic 60" and a certain candidate wins the presidency, you will see some amazing things coming down the pike. No hyperbole, here. Watch and see and all we can do is gripe and blog.
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  10. #40
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    I agree with the majority, he's toast. He should have avoided the verbal confrontation in the first place.
    "Run for your life from the man who tells you that money is evil. That sentence is the leper's bell of an approaching looter. So long as men live together on earth and need means to deal with one another-their only substitute, if they abandon money, is the muzzle of a gun."

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  11. #41
    Senior Member Array preachertim's Avatar
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    words do not constitute the need for drawing a gun. Some idiots will say anything! Lots of witnesses and all you got is he said something about my Wife. GODBYE PERMIT and welcome to the list of felons who may never even own another gun
    Why Would A Preacher ever need a Gun? Its Not for the Sheep , its for the Wolves!

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  12. #42
    Senior Member Array Macattack's Avatar
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    turd on toast.
    You had better be in danger if you are going to pull your ccw. Not only from a legal standpoint, but a preservation of life standpoint.

    What if there had been another ccw holder in the stands(lets say a green/inexperianced one) There is a huge chance that his gun will come out and firing may ensue.

    What about the prison guard. Having worked in a "correction center" myself, I can tell you that some of these guys are worse than mall ninjas. Burke was very lucky he only got tackled!
    Often they are not able to be police officers for some reason or another and are just looking for a chance to "be a hero with a gun"
    (no offense to any correction officers here. I still have friends that work at monroe that i consider the very essence of responsibility and level headedness)

    Even if you are 100% in the right and are holding a rabid murderer at bay from a group of nuns and infants, there is a chance that someone will see you and draw and fire.

    In other words, with so many people getting there ccws, you had better be extra safe and within the law.

    Also i generally look down on people who yell at other people in public over stupid things.
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  13. #43
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    You all are missing the point------isn't it about time to outlaw soccer games, look at all the trouble this one has caused alone.

    If I remember correctly Burke is/was a movie star---didn't he play both roles in DUMB AND DUMBER.


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  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by cphilip View Post
    Maybe... but Burke started the altercation. So he was not "without fault".
    I am sorry I don't read this anywhere in the article. I have been the person that A coach has picked a screaming match with, heck I was a teenage at that point. I have also watched a coach pick a screaming match with an off duty County LEO. Maybe neither He or I should Carry as a result of this.

    Not enough info as of yet, I will withhold judgment until then. Oh and FYI at 23 I know MANY TIMES where I have found a disparity of force.

    No offense to any Jail guards but who is to say this guy even knew what was going on and did not just see a gun drawn, the way our soccer fields were, people were always coming and going.
    Mark

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  15. #45
    Member Array IfIhaveto's Avatar
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    Wow...

    I think there was a lot left out of this story...Like why was he there (did he have a child there)...Did any witnesses give an account?Again...regardless of the location(soccer game) is the CCW holder a small person and the attacker (husband) a huge guy...He could have still felt that his life was in danger even at a childrens game...A few years ago a gentlemen was at a hockey game with his son.. A small guy...some large karate guy thought he was Bruce Lee or Stephen Sagal and jumped the guy and killed him in front of the children...So since I wasn't there...and the story stated they were not sure if they will move forward with any charges...I would say...WE didn't get the entire story...

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