Defense of others?

This is a discussion on Defense of others? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; One of the issues that was never made clear to me during my CCW training is the issue of coming to the aid of another ...

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Thread: Defense of others?

  1. #1
    New Member Array Hotpockets's Avatar
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    Defense of others?

    One of the issues that was never made clear to me during my CCW training is the issue of coming to the aid of another person. Can I draw my gun and shoot a person if I perceive that that person represents a threat of grievous bodily harm or death to another person? Simple question, I know, but I'll bet the answer is complicated. BTW: I carry in Minnesota if that helps...

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    I protect my family and myself...all others (almost all others) will require my being a good witness. There are too many variables in most situations for me to stick my nose into...a woman being raped, a child being abducted, a man with a gun facing others...all could be wrongly intrerpreted.
    That's why we have cell phones and eyes...be a great witness. Any other action could cost you your CCW permit, a law suit, or worse.
    You're not a cop...you're not the worlds hero (unless you have a CCW badge...)...wait, you are new here...DON'T get a badge!

    Stay armed...be a good witness...stay safe!
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    Member Array seedoubleyou's Avatar
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    I'll bet the answer is complicated
    Very complicated. Make sure you are aware of the law. Make sure that what you see happening is actually what's happenning. Make sure that you realize that if you use deadly force, and you are wrong, that you are in deep...... You don't want to be held liable, whether it's civil or criminal......It's good that you ask the question now, before you're ever faced with the situation..... It's a question we all have to ask ourselves.
    CW

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    Distinguished Member Array bandit383's Avatar
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    A very good question many have wrestled with here...I agree with Retsupt.

    Rick

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    JRI
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    Complicated????

    Complicated does not even begin to address the issue of shooting someone to protect another. When you shoot someone in your own self defense; that is complicated. You shot because you were in fear of your life.

    Now, consider all the reviews and investigations you will go through so that you can be judged justified in shooting. In this instance you had all the information. You knew who the bad guy was.

    Ok, now you come upon the scene of what you think is a bad guy attacking a good guy. What you don't know was that those roles were reversed before you came upon the scene. What you actually saw was the good guy turning the tables on the bad guy who had instigated the attack.

    The bottom line is to leave the policing to the police. Your first priority is your own self-defense. If you want to take action then 9-1-1 is the best thing to do. You should be aware of ALL the circumstance of a situation before you even draw your weapon. When you actually pull the trigger there should be absolutely no doubt of ANY of the facts in your mind.

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    No, its not too complicated.

    The answer lies within the law.

    Some states have a valid "Defense of a third person"clause in the law which allows you to use lethal force if you think that someone elses life is in danger.

    Some states dont. If your state dosent, then you could and more than likely would find yourself in a world of legal issues if it ever came to that.

    Do some searching on Minnesota law for the answer or get a Minnesota Handgun Instructor to make it clear for you.

    This is something you need to know BEFORE you get into a situation...not during or after.

    On the other hand, do what you feel is the right thing to do. Sometimes the law compliments that, other times it dosent. Just know where you stand.
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    Distinguished Member Array Rcher's Avatar
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    The reason I carry a gun is for self defense. I will take it further for family, but, other than that, I will take cover to protect myself and family and be a good witness. I'm not here to enforce the law, just survive.

    >>---->
    "Government is not the solution to our problem; government IS the problem". - Ronald Reagan 1981

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    Coming to the aid of another with deadly force will be a decision I'll have to make at the time... there's a lot to consider. The same answer applies to "am I willing to lay my life down for a stranger?"
    ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thumper View Post
    Coming to the aid of another with deadly force will be a decision I'll have to make at the time... there's a lot to consider. The same ans "am I willing to lay my life down for a stranger?" wer applies to
    ...who in today's crazy world might just turn around and sue you for the interference...
    The last Blood Moon Tetrad for this millennium starts in April 2014 and ends in September 2015...according to NASA.

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    New Member Array Hotpockets's Avatar
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    Thanks for the thoughtful replies. I'm hearing (correct me if I'm wrong) that the best way to handle the situation is to be a great witness to help law enforcement and the courts come to the right conclusion. I'll try to get the info about Minnesota's law in this situation. Thanks again!

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    Distinguished Member Array Paymeister's Avatar
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    In my CCW class it was hammered into us that what we thing we're seeing may not be what is really going on: the undercover cop busting the drug dealer, for example, and you not hearing his "you're under arrest" or seeing his badge (or whatever they're supposed to say/do).

    However, I DO know what's going on with my wife and daughter: they're REALLY unlikely to be jumped by an undercover cop making a drug bust. (Maybe the "bad joke police", but not a narcotics guy...) SO I would feel quite comfortable in responding with lethal force to a threat against one of them.

    Others have the responsibility for their own SELF defense. If they choose to abdicate their responsibility, regardless of who told them to, it's their lookout. They could have obtained a permit and weapon, but chose not to.

    But I'm not sure how I would respond with a kid being dragged into a car shouting "I don't know you!" Nuts. Now I have to think that one through. Actually, I think I'll start another thread specifically about that...

    [Edited: a long thread already dealt with this here; I started one here before searching, unfortunately, and I can't figure out how to delete it. Oh, well - another one of these beats 'open vs. concealed' or 'which caliber'. Apologies...]
    Last edited by Paymeister; October 26th, 2008 at 10:30 PM. Reason: Added links to related threads

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    I started a thread awhile ago in this forum called "defending others" and had a situation where my good friends were in a fight. You should check that thread out as there was many replies. None of them were a general answer to your question, but to my specific situation. Which leads me to say as others already have, there is no generic answer, every situation will have many variables that will affect your decisions.
    "I'd rather have one and not need it, than need one and not have it!"

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    Senior Member Array threefeathers's Avatar
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    At LFI Ayoob drummed when into us. The answere is yes, I will defend an innocent person. I held fire once in my life and a 4 year old was killed when I could have killed the person who fired and to this day I have nightmares about it.

    From LFI. When can you use deadly force?
    When immediate and otherwise unavoidable danger of death or grave bodily harm to the innocent is the only circumstance that justifies the death of a person.
    That innocent is ANY innocent person.

    A number of us on the site reccommend LFI for solid reasons.

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    Just remember this, your license and gun doesn't not give you the responsibility or the right to police the world. Protect yourself and loved ones. Be a good witness and be prepared to protect yourself if the situation calls for it.
    Freedom doesn't come free. It is bought and paid for by the lives and blood of our men and women in uniform.

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    Ex Member Array FN1910's Avatar
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    In my CWP class it was explained that in SC the Alter Ego principle applies. What this means is that third person such as yourself can put yourself in the shoes of a person being attacked and defend them as you would yourself. The primary example was in a store where an armed robbery was taking place. If the clerk was being threatened then you have the same rights to defend that clerk as the clerk does. As some pointed out be very careful that you know who the BG is and what is going on. It does not give you the right to make assumptions nor does it require you to intervene.

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