CCW advice cross post from another fourm

This is a discussion on CCW advice cross post from another fourm within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; This was originally posted in the Profesional Soldier's Forum , and elsewhere, and I thought it worthwhile enough to repost here, I dont agree with ...

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Thread: CCW advice cross post from another fourm

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    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
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    CCW advice post from another fourm

    This was originally posted in the Profesional Soldier's Forum, and elsewhere, and I thought it worthwhile enough to repost here, I dont agree with all of it but over all its great food for thought.

    Good advice for 2006 CCW seekers!

    (Written by a good friend of mine.)

    Concealed Carry Weapons

    Many people may start this new year considering obtaining a CCW permit or starting to carry a concealed handgun. The following is offered for your consideration.

    There are many choices for the armed individual who wants to carry a large framed handgun under winter clothing, or for those who want to carry a peashooter in their bathing suit.

    Most people will opt for an intermediate solution which is small enough to carry concealed under most circumstances, yet powerful enough to reliably put down multiple adversaries with properly placed rounds.

    We will not deal with the legalities and moral issues of carrying a concealed weapon here. If you have those questions, see an attorney or a priest. www.packing.org is another place to check out your legal options. I would state that everyone thinking about owning a firearm for personal defense take a quiet moment to reflect on whether you would be willing to take another's life to protect yourself or those you are responsible for. If not, do us all a favor and do not carry a firearm for defense. Likewise, if you are the kind of person who is looking for an opportunity to brandish your piece for minor reasons or to shoot a person under anything other than deadly force conditions, do us a favor and and do not carry a firearm.

    When I carry a concealed weapon, I also find it handy to carry a good flashlight, at least one spare mag, a can of OC, a knife, a cellular phone, and a set of flexcuffs. Not every situation requires lethal force. Everything that you shoot at needs to be positively identified before you press the trigger. You may have to restrain someone and not be able to hold a weapon on them until they are taken into custody. Know the laws in your area. Get to know the cops in your area. Be a good guy/gal.

    Do not get your CCW mags out of the "Grab Bag" bin or from a dumpster behind the pawn shop. Buy new factory mags or better quality, test them before you use them with your carry rig, keep oil off the rounds, shoot up the carry ammo every six months or less, and if you get a mag related malfunction that cannot be remedied by a spring or follower change, smash it with a hammer or at least mark it and rotate it to training use only.

    To carry concealed requires a decent holster. Please do not embarrass the rest of us and try to get by with a $3.00 nylon bargain basement "one size fits all" special. This will result in you flashing your piece, dropping your weapon at inopportune moments, and drawing a holstered weapon with the holster still attached. Don't try to use a holster meant for another weapon unless it really fits. Serious people carry serious gear. Don't put your $700 pistol in the cheapest holster you can find if you expect to carry concealed past the end of your driveway. Sticking the weapon in your belt for carry is dangerous, stupid, and makes you look like a rank amateur.

    If you are betting your life on being able to stop an opponent with your handgun, you need the best ammunition that you can find. You may not be able to get LeMas, but the only reason to carry Wolf in a duty gun is if that is all you can find, or that is what you are issued. In either case, you need to be seeking alternatives. Never forget that the two loudest sounds in the world are a click that should have been a bang, and a bang that should have been a click.

    Maintain your weapon. Rust, dirt, crud from last year's live fire, and pocket lint are not sexy. Clean your weapon regularly, and lube it according to the book. Function fire or function check after disasssembly. Select a safe carry condition appropriate for your threat and carry method, and use it all of the time.

    Finally, serious professionals are well-trained. They got that way by quality practice and by seeking training from qualified professionals. Do not be ashamed to get good training before you start packing, or to seek additional training, no matter how good you are. I attended several classes last year. Training is an opportunity to learn things, good and bad, and to add tools to your kitbag. If your five day, $1000 course winds up teaching you one additional technique, on the day you have to draw your weapon and you need that tool, it will have been well worth it.

    Your training should include instructions on when you can draw your weapon and engage an opponent. This is not television, you cannot whip out your piece and shoot at people without a very sound reason. You will be held accountable for every round you fire. You will not shoot another human being and stroll off to the applause of the cops like the good guys do on television. You may wind up in court defending your actions at great expense while your freedom is in peril, even if your actions were fully justified. You will probably be sued in civil court regardless of the criminal outcome. Know the applicable laws, know when you can/may/must act, and what to do if you do have to shoot another person. Keep a defense attorney's number in the cell phone, remember that you have the right to an attorney before answering any questions, and almost certainly should take advantage of that right, even if you think you were fully justified. Lawyering up is not a crime, regardless of what they tell you.

    LEOs now have the option of nationwide concealed carry. IMHO, backup guns should if at all possible be the same caliber as the primary piece, and preferably take the same mags as well. I would hate to be in a serious gunfight and have a .45 duty gun go down in the first mag, and be left with a .38 revolver as my only backup. I would also not want to be stripping .40 rounds out of duty mags to try and transfer them to an empty bakckup gun mag while under fire.

    I also prefer that backups function the same as the primary, so that you are not trying to disengage a safety only to find out that it is a decocker. I am not a fan of the "Gun of the Week Club". Find a handgun that works for you and stick with it. I have used a variety of pistols, but have stuck with 1911s as carry pistols since 1977. When I carried a Government Model primary, I carried a Lightweight Officer's Model as a backup. When a Para P-14 was my primary, I carried an alloy Para P-12 as a backup. For those with large frame Glock primaries, I would recommend a Glock sub-compact in the same caliber as backup.

    I have personally attempted to concealed carry everything from a .22LR NAA Mini-Revolver to a Para-Ordnance .45 ACP at various times. Most people today with CCWs who are serious will opt for a concealed weapon in .38 Special, 9mm, .40 S&W, or .45 ACP. There are those who will use a .25, .32, .380, .357, 10mm, .44, .45 Colt, or another unusual caliber. If it works reliably for you, you can hit what you need to, and you are comfortable carrying it (literally and figuratively), that is your call. If I am in very lightweight summer clothing, I will occasionally opt for a Kel-Tec .380. If so, I will keep a Para or other larger weapon as close at hand as possible. Regardless of the caliber, remember what Jeff Cooper said about a pistol being what you carry when you are not expecting to be in a gunfight and Clint Smith's adage that a handgun is what you use to fight your way back to where you left your real gun.
    Last edited by Bumper; February 1st, 2006 at 12:06 PM. Reason: Corrected source credits to the original article.

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    Not a bad piece - can't really fault it in any major sense.
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


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    VIP Member Array Bud White's Avatar
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    Thats is a Good piece and should be One of the Thing People who are first Carrying should read

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    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
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    personaly i disagree strongly with flexcufs ( unless your active LE ) and wouldnt bother with pepper spray/mace myself since imho they are rather spotty as far as effictiveness goes other than that i thought it was well reasoned , feel free to change title to newbys read this first and sticky it if ya want to lol

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    VIP Member Array Bud White's Avatar
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    Your right the Flex cuffs stuff naw i wont borther with but in general its good stuff

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    Senior Member Array rfurtkamp's Avatar
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    When I carry a concealed weapon, I also find it handy to carry a good flashlight, at least one spare mag, a can of OC, a knife, a cellular phone, and a set of flexcuffs. Not every situation requires lethal force.
    Tells me that this author has spent too much time with police trainers, in all honesty.

    As a civilian, if you're justified in using force, you're generally justified to use lethal force - there is no 'continuum of force' requirements for a non-LEO that I am aware of.

    You will probably be sued in civil court regardless of the criminal outcome.
    Author fails to acknowledge that laws vary substantially from state to state. If I had a buck for every time a know-it-all told me I was going to be sued for use, I'd buy myself a full-time attorney on retainer - we're exempt in this state as are residents of many others in the event of defending oneself from crime. A good shoot is a good shoot here.
    Driver carries less than $45 worth of remorse.

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    Member Array Dingle1911's Avatar
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    I also don't agree with the flex cuffs. I am not LE and see no need to restrain someone. I just finished reading "Armed Response" (sorry cannot remember the author), but it made a good point that you should never get close enough to restain the person that just threatened your life. Distance is our friend.

    I am also not a fan of OC spray ever since I was at a football game in college and some LE sprayed a small group of students fighting and the wind blew that cloud of spray into bystanders who where really not that close to the fight. I don't want my weapon to be used against me.

    Other than that I thought it was good.

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    There's some good advice there, but I also agree that the flexcuffs aren't a good idea. It's the same reason I won't carry a CCW badge - while I carry a gun to protect myself, I don't want to give the appearance of being a wannabe cop. I'd like to stay on the good side of cops. Restraining someone opens up another can of worms.
    "Americans have the will to resist because you have weapons. If you don't have a gun, freedom of speech has no power." - Yoshimi Ishikawa

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    Distinguished Member Array AutoFan's Avatar
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    There IS a continum of force for non-LEO's. I don't want to have to shoot someone that starts a fist fight with me, for example. I also don't want to get the crap kicked out of me. OC is not a great option, Tasers work but cost as much as a higher end handgun. ASP batons are good, but not legal everywhere. So I've studied martial arts. Not to mention that CCW is not permitted or possible everywhere. Agree with the general comments about the flexcuffs being unnecessary.

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    Senior Member Array rfurtkamp's Avatar
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    There IS a continum of force for non-LEO's. I don't want to have to shoot someone that starts a fist fight with me, for example.
    Depends on your jurisdiction. Personal preference notwithstanding - I have no qualms about using the most effective tools at my disposal to stop a threat.

    A wacko out of nowhere who starts atacking me is a reasonable threat, be it with fists, knives, or slurpee cups.
    Driver carries less than $45 worth of remorse.

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    Member Array pierced456's Avatar
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    I also think the flex cuffs are a bad idea. Because you carry a gun does not make you a cop. As a citizen you should not be in the business of detaining people. Your handgun is there for ONLY when your life is threatned. Its not your duty to go around detaining BG'S. If the BG runs away LET HIM GO.
    Nothing begins, and nothing ends, That is not paid with moan; For we are born in others pain And perish in our own.

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    Member Array Kompact9's Avatar
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    Pretty good piece all in all, but I don't agree with all the points. The advice about the attitude you adopt is good...if you carry, you have to have made a decision ahead of time about taking a life, if necessary, and not to go "cowboy" in less than a lethal force encounter.

    The comment about picking a carry piece and staying with it I believe is sound. When stress levels are high, one will almost always revert to how you've trained. "Gun of the week", IMHO, is not a good idea.

    The comment about keeping your handgun in the best of mechanical shape (clean with known good magazines and fresh ammunition) is right on the money. Functional testing after re-assembly I think is worth mentioning as well. To check firing pin/striker function, I took a broken plastic coat hanger (WalMart special straight part cut to about 6 inches long) piece and ground the ends nice and flat. After assembly, I insert the "test rod" into the barrel while holding the gun pointed upward and pull the trigger. The "test rod" will come out (in my case) about 4-6 feet. I then feel confident that when I pull the trigger, the gun will go bang.

    As for the rest of it, if it's a lethal force encounter, then my signature is my summation...
    noli nothis permittere te terere...

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    Member Array BushidoMarine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kompact9
    Functional testing after re-assembly I think is worth mentioning as well. To check firing pin/striker function, I took a broken plastic coat hanger (WalMart special straight part cut to about 6 inches long) piece and ground the ends nice and flat. After assembly, I insert the "test rod" into the barrel while holding the gun pointed upward and pull the trigger. The "test rod" will come out (in my case) about 4-6 feet. I then feel confident that when I pull the trigger, the gun will go bang.

    As for the rest of it, if it's a lethal force encounter, then my signature is my summation...
    Now THIS is some golden advice and a real eye opener! Just because we hear a nice CLICK! when doing dry fire or a function check, doesn't necessarily mean the firing pin is reaching the primer. I will definitely be adding this to my weapons maintanance routine!
    "An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it."
    - Col. Jeff Cooper, USMC

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kompact9
    Functional testing after re-assembly I think is worth mentioning as well. To check firing pin/striker function, I took a broken plastic coat hanger (WalMart special straight part cut to about 6 inches long) piece and ground the ends nice and flat. After assembly, I insert the "test rod" into the barrel while holding the gun pointed upward and pull the trigger. The "test rod" will come out (in my case) about 4-6 feet. I then feel confident that when I pull the trigger, the gun will go bang.
    I use the same idea except I use a pencil with a new eraser. When you pull the trigger the pencil will jump out of the barrel after the firing pin strikes the eraser.
    Heroes are people who do what has to be done, when it has to be done, regardless of the consequences

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    Member Array Moon's Avatar
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    I thought this post looked familiar...

    Here is the original. http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/...ead.php?t=9449

    Like all advice, we should take what fits our lifestyle/mission. Not all of it should be adopted by all persons.

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