Opinions Needed - Outdoor carry
This is a discussion on Opinions Needed - Outdoor carry within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I don't know why they get such a bad rap.
They get a bad rap because their mere presence does nothing but illustrate that the ...
January 4th, 2006 07:08 AM
They get a bad rap because their mere presence does nothing but illustrate that the federal government is doing a piss poor job when it comes to securing the border.
I don't know why they get such a bad rap.
That is a bad area and it is getting increasingly violent. NO WAY in heck I would go down there without some serious weapons.
Gunfire is on the rise down there. Dont handicap yourself.Its better to have "too much"rather than "not enough" If you are gonna err, err on the side of caution.
January 4th, 2006 08:02 AM
I would carry multiple guns concealed. I would carry a 30-06 or 308 "hunting rifle" slung. I think an evil black rifle might attract attention. A .223 caliber would be an option in a non AR style rifle as well. I would be sure my co-workers were armed and knew how to use their firearms and mine. Hopefully one of them will bring a shotgun as well. You may have to deal with some smaller but not so nice critters along the way.
I would be sure everyone had at least two reloads and everyone knew where all the reloads are going to be. I assume you will have binoculars, so be sure they are good ones. Have a member of the crew scan periodically, how often is up to you, just be sure they don't get tunnel vision working on a task.
I'm sure you'll have a good first aid kit and other stuff appropriate for that area at this time of year. Hopefully you guys won't be camping out there. Also if it is at all possible for the female to conceal the fact that she is female to the casual observer might be a good thing.
I would also contact the MinuteMen and Border Patrol Sector . I doubt the BP would escort you but the MinuteMen may provide some coverage for you. The BP may be a good source of info on frequent movements and possibly times to avoid being in the area. The MinuteMen may also be a good source on info and possibly what to bring with you and or how to react if you meet a group. They have been there on the ground so they should have very good info.
It might also be worth a try to see if your company can hire an escort for you. It may be futile due to cost, but it never hurts to ask.
A last thought is that possibly the Minute Men or the BP will let you know which radio frequecies they use so you can communicate directly with them should you need to. The BP likely won't want you on their transmission freqs, but may have some that they monitor for calls. Also get phone numbers for folks patrolling in the area in case your cell phones work.
Good luck and watch your flanks,
January 4th, 2006 08:59 AM
I'll add my .02 to the good advice thus far presented: The landowners in the area are regularly taken under fire with full auto. Sometimes the guys holding those class III weapons have been members of the Mexican military, working for the drug cartels. There is at least one group of Mexican SpecOps doing this, too. They are smart, well trained and highly experienced. Having a gun or three is fine. Don't mistake it for being well armed, however.
I'd make contact with three groups: The Minutemen (GOOD GUYS), the Border Patrol and any landowners you happen to find yourselves nearby. Be a TURTLE, not a TIGER. Keep a low profile!
I'd say go concealed with a handgun in a serious caliber beginning with the number "4." If you choose a single stack, I'd carry four spare mags for a total of five. If you choose a double stack hi-cap you can cut that somewhat. Say three total. I also highly agree with carrying an innocuous looking long gun, like a lever action, but I'd go with the .30-30 instead of the 44 maggie. Carry a couple boxes of ammo say 40rds.
It would be a big help if somebody in your group had some military (infantry) experience to draw upon. But look, nobody here is suggesting you're going to get caught in a war situation. LOL We're all paranoid, anyway. It's just that military folks are used to thinking tactically and are able to assess a situation on the ground quickly and decide what to do. You can do that too.
Just remember, Be a turtle, not a tiger.
There's a good sci-fi book by Robert A. Heinlein called Tunnel in the Sky that you should take along. Got some good advice for situations like this.....it's fun reading, too.
Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; NRA Endowment Life; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.
January 4th, 2006 09:04 AM
I would contact the minutemen and BP for reasons stated above. I hadn't thought about comms, however now that Scott brought it up I probably would have thought about it about 5 mins too late.
I wouldn't go. If I had too, I'd carry one of my 1911s and an AR15 openly, even if escorted (if allowed). If the other two are familiar with firearms, they would be armed as well, if not, they carry ammo anyway.
How will you be traveling? On foot or on wheels?
January 4th, 2006 09:23 AM
I'd say to go with what Tank has mentioned...........might save you a LOT of trouble, and make good neighbors for you as well.
Originally Posted by tanksoldier
Why Waltz when you can Rock-N-Roll
January 4th, 2006 09:47 AM
Long gun: .308 bolt (for reliablity and ammunition availablity)
Hand gun: what you shoot best with (concealed)
Ammunition: at least 50 for each
Communication: SATphone if possible(GMRS radios for intercom)
BP radio or radio on same frequency as Minutemen
signal light or mirror
noli nothis permittere te terere...
January 4th, 2006 10:25 AM
I think that all the info given so far has been great. Communication and letting people know you are there is a great idea.
The only question that still exists is, will the company that you work for allow you to be armed?
January 4th, 2006 10:40 AM
I don't have any experience on the border, but a few things come to mind from the perspective of self-defense.
First, I believe keeping a low profile is key to avoid detection (if possible) or avoid unwanted attention. Keep a good distance between you, your coworkers, and anyone you come across.
Second, don't go down there looking like drug runners or law enforcement. Both are targets for the cartels doing "business" down there. If you wear casual clothes with a bunch of guns hanging across your back, that's going to attract a lot of attention from both the good and bad guys. And if deck yourself out in camo or something that looks like a uniform, that's just as bad.
Be safe out there!
SIC SEMPER TYRANNIS
Proud member NRA, GOA, VCDL
January 4th, 2006 11:01 AM
Well, I spoke with the BP this morning. They indicate no particular dangers at the present time although traffic is expected to increase following Christmas.
The Minutemen do not operate in that area but if they did, they would not be of concern.
The agent indicated that they have a large presence down there and that should we encounter any trouble a phone call to Tucson will get an agent there fairly quickly. The agent recommended carrying weapons, no preference for open or concealed carry. Just excercize caution and all should go well.
As for my logistics, I plan on never being more than a mile from the vehicle at any given time, and will follow the great advice given here.
January 4th, 2006 11:12 AM
I may have issed it in the excellent advice given above but I would include a GPS unit to help with making sure I knew where I was and where that border line was. Also helpful if you have to call for help. Better location than "about three miles west of that big rock just off the dirt road...".
Bob McDuffee, co-host DogWatch Social Club Podcast
Thoughtful Conversation, Considered Opinion and a Touch of Insanity
"He who goes about unarmed in paradise, had better be sure that is where he is!" James Thurber
January 4th, 2006 11:18 AM
Having lived in the Tombstone area, I would pack a single action revolver in the open (and a semi-auto concealed) along with a good lever-action. The BP and locals wouldn't give you a second look nor mistake you for a narco-terrorist or "coyote".
I wouldn't bet your life on it though, been there.
The agent indicated that they have a large presence down there and that should we encounter any trouble a phone call to Tucson will get an agent there fairly quickly.
"The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper "Terrorists: They hated you yesterday, they hate you today, and they will hate you tomorrow.
End the cycle of hatred, don’t give them a tomorrow."
January 4th, 2006 12:05 PM
Good thought on the Single Action... that would totally blend in - which is the idea. Unfortunately I don't have one - yet. Maybe my S&W 586 on the hip and an auto in the pack.
January 4th, 2006 12:11 PM
January 4th, 2006 01:50 PM
The GPS is a good recommendation that I think XD mentioned.
You can take a waypoint at your automobile and then have it direct you back to the vehicle (to keep from getting separated too far from the vehicle.
Go to www.cabelas.com and search for gps radio. You will see garmin rinos. You can have communications with the team and keep track of where the others are (if they have the same gps units).
January 4th, 2006 04:06 PM
GPS is a given, it's one of the tools we always have with is - remember, it's an environmental survey. Land suyrveyors have already been out there and the line is well marked. All we need to do is follow thier stakes.
I think if we stay out of the way of the bad guys and don't alarm the good guys we'll be just fine.
I'm with Rgr5280 - we're talking about safety... let's keep it at that level.
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