November 22nd, 2008 04:19 AM
JD, kudos for being patient and actually caring enought to follow up. It's obvious that this guy needs some serious work on his mindset and some more training.
There are a lot of cops (and CCW holders) who are only alive because no one has tried to kill them yet...
"Being a predator isn't always comfortable but the only other option is to be prey. That is not an acceptable option." ~Phil Messina
If you carry in Condition 3, you have two empty chambers. One in the weapon...the other between your ears.
November 22nd, 2008 07:45 AM
Got stopped once and had it removed by officer....I told him to unload it waaayyyy over there 'cause I don't trust you. Then when he saw it, he yelled to his partner, "this is the Kinber Tactical I want to buy." I told him there were 200 rounds in the trunk if he anted to pop off a few just to try it out.....the back seat of a police car is very uncomfortable. It was a license issue about are a red light tix that I was found guilty (NYC) and appealed the tix....SUSPENDED LICENSE, get out of the car....I wish to inform you that, blah blah...hands on roof....got through it...
Government's first duty is to protect the people, not run their lives.
November 22nd, 2008 07:52 AM
I was stopped once and disarmed by the Cop. I was carrying my ruger p 95 and it has a decoker. Wonder if they get that Gun confused with the 1911?
Why Would A Preacher ever need a Gun? Its Not for the Sheep , its for the Wolves!
Springfield Armory Service XD 40
Taurus PT 1911 45 acp Taurus PT 101, PT 92
Ruger 22/45 Ruger P95 9mm, Ruger SR9
Kahr CW 40, Heritage 22, Rossi 38 special
November 22nd, 2008 08:57 AM
Well I finely read the post.
Looks like you need to inform in VA. Is that correct? In MN, we don't and I would not unless the officer would see the gun in the course of the stop.
I also would carry my wallet in a pocket where I would not have to expose the gun. Like a coat pocket or breast pocket of a shirt. In my wallet is my DL, proof of insurance and carry permit so no reaching across the car to get the insurance out of the glove box. In MN, the sheriffs are the ones who process carry permits so they do a much better job than most local PDs about knowing our law. The MN state patrol is very good also.
Good job JD on making the encounter as safe for you and Lima as possible under the circumstances. You did the right thing by talking to the sheriff and trying to help.
In the end, If you don't have to inform don't IMHO. It is safer for all parties concerned. My two cents.
"If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking" - George S. Patton.
November 22nd, 2008 11:08 AM
With all the 4th amendment & reasonable articulable suspicion discussion, I thought I'd point out a book that I found useful - "You & The Police" by Boston T. Party. I'm not a lawyer, and didn't even stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night, but I think people would be well served by reading this book and the appropriate case law themselves. I feel that even people with "nothing to hide" should exercise their 4th amendment rights, if nothing else than to force uninformed LEOs to be aware of them.
A couple other traffic stops I have been involved in while carrying (both while living in NC):
Once while running late to the Ocracoke Island ferry, I ran 55 mph past the 35 mph sign down the deserted 2-lane road which leads to the ferry (it had been 55 mph until that point), and of course came across a sheriff's deputy going the other way. He pulled me over, and I did all the textbook steps. I admitted that I was still coasting down from the previous speed and was probably above the 35 mph limit, but it had caught me by surprise. He asked if I shot competitively. He followed IDPA matches, and apparently recognized my name from results. We had a very brief discussion of matches, then he told me to REALLY watch my speed on Ocracoke (they were really cracking down on speeders on the island), mentioned that the ferry was running late (no need to speed) and sent me on my way.
Below is an email I wrote at the time after another stop.
Does anyone know if a pistol serial number called in during a traffic stop is entered in as a permanent record, effectively "registering" it?
I was pulled over last night, allegedly for running a stop sign. I most definitely DID NOT run the stop sign, as I had seen the police car and was paying close attention to my driving. I suspect the real reason for being pulled over was being a possibly-Hispanic-or-middle-Eastern appearing male driving an expensive-looking sports car after 11:00 pm.
I performed all of the standard CCW duties while pulled over, and politely mentioned that I believe that I had made a full and complete stop at both stop signs where the deputy had observed me.
The deputy asked me what I did for a living, who I worked for, and where I was going (Engineer, NACCO, returning home from a pistol match, with a 1st place trophy on the seat next to me as corroborating evidence). He then politely ordered me to surrender my weapon. He took the pistol back to his car (where a fellow deputy following him had joined him), read the serial number into his radio, and waited ~15 minutes. He returned with my pistol (unloaded, slide locked back, plus the mag & loose round), along with a written warning for the alleged failure to stop. He explained that the warning did not go on my record and was nothing to worry about, but that I should stop for a longer period of time at stop signs.
If this was a county such as Durham, I would suspect that a database (legal or not) would be kept of any such serial numbers. As this was in Pitt County (where the Sheriff attends NRA fund-raising auctions), I hope it is different.
November 22nd, 2008 12:03 PM
Originally Posted by MichaelP
I've never known of any sort of registration being created when a pistol serial number is checked through NCIC. NCIC doesn't generate any sort of record on negative responses, and I've never worked for an agency that kept any sort of records on negative responses for guns that are not entered into evidence.
My gut feeling would be that such a database does not exist in NC, even in Durham, but all I can say for sure is that my agency keeps no such records.
"The Engine could still smile...it seemed to scare them" -Felix
December 6th, 2008 03:04 PM
Thanks for sharing your experience. I think about this whenever I am on the road, and try to plan my response for different events. You've helped me better prepare for when this happens to me.
December 6th, 2008 07:29 PM
This situation from the OP is why I always speak first, even if I have to interrupt the officer. I state that while I'm not required to tell them, I have a valid CPL, and that I am carrying a firearm. There are just too many variables in a traffic stop situation on both sides for this all-important information not to be conveyed immediately upon verbal contact with the officer. They might not like getting interrupted by the person they just pulled over, but I like getting shot over some stupid misunderstanding one heck of a lot less.
My experience was with a Stater who caught me doing 12 over in a ridiculously short passing lane area where the 5-10 under guy (for the last 20 minutes) and the poor slob in front of me directly behind him decided to drag race for the 700 feet of passing lane I had before I started playing chicken with oncoming traffic. Fun times, I gotta tell you.
I crested the hill, starting to decelerate and there was the red and blues firing up in the oncoming lane. Hit my blinker, pulled over to the shoulder, turned off the car, hit my flashers, and placed my hands high on the wheel. It was daylight so I didn't have to turn on the overhead lamp so the officer could see inside the vehicle better.
He came up on the passenger side (good on him) and managed "Hello" before I gave him the spiel. He just looked at me, asked where the gun was (right hip), where the wallet was (right front pocket), and told me to slowly get my wallet out where I pulled my CPL and DL and handed them over. He thanked me, asked if my weapon is a Glock (1st Gen G17), took the IDs and started the ticketing process. He told me he had me at 12 over after asking me how fast I was going (I said "about 65" but he had me at 67) and I apologized for hassling him with this stuff before thanking him for his time.
And thus my speeding ticket karma is renewed upon payment of the fine...
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