"My" Improperly Handled Traffic Stop.

This is a discussion on "My" Improperly Handled Traffic Stop. within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Thoughts, questions, comments? Have you considered keeping your ID's somewhere else that the back pockets? Ever since I started CCW, I carry my wallet in ...

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Thread: "My" Improperly Handled Traffic Stop.

  1. #16
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    Thoughts, questions, comments?
    Have you considered keeping your ID's somewhere else that the back pockets?
    Ever since I started CCW, I carry my wallet in the top front pocket of my vest or shirt. I make the point of having at least one upper pocket to carry the IDs so i don't have to lower my hands if stopped. It also helps avoiding the accidental display of either firearm or extra mags.

    As for the officer.. whoa! A remedial class in gun handling is mandatory in his case. I do hope they take you up on your offer.

    And what was Lima thinking when all these was happening?
    You have to make the shot when fire is smoking, people are screaming, dogs are barking, kids are crying and sirens are coming.
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  3. #17
    Senior Member Array mercop's Avatar
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    For the life of me I cannot understand why and officer would consider someone who just said they were legally armed to be a threat.

  4. #18
    Member Array Soular's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PM View Post
    JD

    Was Lima armed? He also did not secure her either; if she was armed the deputy is still dead if she chooses to act in your defense. As for coming accross you in the car . . .
    Was thinking the exact same thing.

  5. #19
    JD [OP]
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    Quote Originally Posted by mercop View Post
    For the life of me I cannot understand why and officer would consider someone who just said they were legally armed to be a threat.
    Well that's the thing, I never got the "legal" part out, he just asked if I was armed to which I answered "Yes" he then reacted too quickly and in too much of an aggressive manner for me to keep a commentary going. When he took that quick step back it was time to shut up and play passive/submissive until he had regained composure and felt that he had everything under the appropriate level of control. The last thing I wanted to do was alarm him further with any actions not done per his request.

  6. #20
    Member Array 820Larry's Avatar
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    As a retired LEO I have to add my $.02 worth. In 29 years as LEO I have known way too many good officers who only handled a firearm on qualification day. The rest of the year they never touched it.......I have seen officers who carried a Colt revolver as a duty weapon not know how to open the cyl. on a S/W....Unfortunally,most departments do not have an adequate training budget and the officers get the mininum that the state requires. My hat is off to you and Lima for the way you handled the situation..

  7. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miggy View Post
    Have you considered keeping your ID's somewhere else that the back pockets?
    Ever since I started CCW, I carry my wallet in the top front pocket of my vest or shirt. I make the point of having at least one upper pocket to carry the IDs so i don't have to lower my hands if stopped. It also helps avoiding the accidental display of either firearm or extra mags.

    As for the officer.. whoa! A remedial class in gun handling is mandatory in his case. I do hope they take you up on your offer.

    And what was Lima thinking when all these was happening?
    I was thinking, "this is going to be very loud" and how we were going to have to explain why there was a .45 sized hole in the side of our car to the insurance company.

    There were also brief moments where I was afraid of getting shot and, of course, what that would mean for the baby. If Garrett had already been born and was in a car seat in the back I would have been FURIOUS and demanded some sort of action as it means he would have been pointing a loaded gun at my son! It was bad enough that he was sweeping our car and my pregnant self (and that still REALLY ticks me off).

    Like JD said, I could see him out the side widow of the vehicle and he was exhibiting VERY poor muzzle control and over-fumbling with a loaded firearm he knew too little about.

    I let JD handle it all and do all the talking because he was VERY tense and putting myself in the mix would have made things 10 times worse.

    I was glad he didn't ask if I was armed because I'm not sure he would have known how to handle two armed people in one stop. I just sat there and kept my mouth shut hoping to remain as invisible as I seemed.

    I also kept my hands where he could see them so he didn't have reason to suspect that I was a threat (even though I was his biggest threat for a good majority of that stop).

    As JD said, if we had been BGs or if I were some crazy woman trying to defend her man, things could have gone HORRIBLY wrong for the officer.

    I'm waiting for follow up from the Sheriff as well as I would love to know how he plans to keep this from happening again.

  8. #22
    JD [OP]
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron View Post
    It's interesting to me how different the stops can be.

    Mine, which I posted, was the exact opposite. I told him I had a carry license and was armed and where the gun was located. He thanked me for telling him, asked if I needed to go near the gun to get him my documents, when I told him no, he asked me to get them, told me to keep my hands where he could see them when he went back to run my license, came back and told me to watch my speed, no ticket issued. I thanked him, told him to stay safe, and away I went.

    Sorry, that yours went so bad. Is it the difference in the training the LEO's get, the demeanor of the particular LEO, or what, I wonder?

    And that's just the thing, there is no one "cause" we had one of the local officers and his wife over for coffee and desert the other night, (really, I'm serious, they came over after church and the girls talked baby stuff while we talked guns and holsters) and I said something along the lines of all traffic stops being different, no two are alike for whatever factor, the officer agreed and we had a lengthy discussion on complacency.

    I think a possible issue in this case is that it's a small county, and the officer probably handles mostly traffic stops, and was complacent, my being armed totally disheveled his level of complacency and as such he acted wrongly by trying to over compensate to being caught off guard. That's just a guess.

  9. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ram Rod View Post
    They must be teaching them less at the academy than they are high schoolers about US history! And I also figured most law enforcement was prior military and would have come out of that experience with at least a bit of common sense/tactics? I guess they'll take almost anyone nowadays for $35k a year. I'm sure there's not a line beating down the door.
    DO NOT COME TO MEMPHIS AND SPEED! The police academy takes anyone that has a body temp within 10 degrees of 98.6. No military experience necessary. No criminal justice degree necessary. Applicants must be breathing though. The criminals on the Memphis city council have really messed it up.

    I always keep my DL and TN HCP in my shirt pocket in case I get pulled over. By the time the officer gets to my window, both are in my left hand draped over the steering wheel with the HCP on top. I have always been asked, "Are you armed?" My reply is, "Yes, I live in Memphis" which lightens the mood and usually gets a smile from the officer...and on the rare occasion that I get stopped for speeding, gets me a warning or a 5 over ticket that has been dismissed every time.

    I know that some states do NOT require that the LEO be informed of the carry permit but in MHO, it makes a big difference to the LEO and is well worth the courtesy...and may get you out of a ticket. jmo
    It is not the Bill of Privileges. It is not the Bill of Permits. It is the Bill of Rights.

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  10. #24
    VIP Member Array Blackeagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD View Post
    Well that's the thing, I never got the "legal" part out, he just asked if I was armed to which I answered "Yes" he then reacted too quickly and in too much of an aggressive manner for me to keep a commentary going.
    I think that when a police officer asks "are you armed?" something along the lines of "I have a carry permit and I'm carrying" is probably a better choice than just saying "yes".

  11. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ram Rod View Post
    ...I guess they'll take almost anyone nowadays for $35k a year. I'm sure there's not a line beating down the door. ...
    I believe it's more like $22K in our county; the local call center pays way more than that. However, I've had nothing but good contacts here ("...and, sir, I have a concealed carry permit and I am armed." "Everyone is, these days.").

    May the Lord keep and protect the LEOs - they're out there trying to make it a more civilized place for me and my family (and JD and Lima and Garrett), and I really appreciate their efforts.

  12. #26
    JD [OP]
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackeagle View Post
    I think that when a police officer asks "are you armed?" something along the lines of "I have a carry permit and I'm carrying" is probably a better choice than just saying "yes".
    Possibly, but I don't think in this case it would have made much a difference, besides, in VA where open carry is legal, it shouldn't of mattered as a permit is not needed to carry openly, only concealed.

    Again, as I do have my permit, I could have answered differently, but I was complacent as I have been stopped before while being armed and never had an issue like this one. If I had even thought for a moment that the officer would loose his cool like that I would have thought more about the answer prior to speaking.

    Besides, you never know, had I answered like that, I could have gotten an reply of "I didn't ask about a _____ permit, I asked if you were armed?!?

    Either way, I'll keep that tidbit filed away if I find myself in a similar position.

    Thanks for the input.

  13. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackeagle View Post
    I think that when a police officer asks "are you armed?" something along the lines of "I have a carry permit and I'm carrying" is probably a better choice than just saying "yes".
    My thoughts as well.
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  14. #28
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    As soon as he started pointing the gun at the pregnant wife I would be saying loudly "PLEASE POINT THE GUN IN A SAFE DIRECTION".
    "Trust in God with hand on sword" -Inscription on my family's coat of arms from medieval England
    ---Carry options: G26/MTAC, PF9/MiniTuck, PPK/Pocket, USP40/OWB---
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  15. #29
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    Ranchrifle

    I am a very passive driver and do not get stopped for traffic violations, so I wondered why the Mich. State Trooper lit-em-up behind me in my work truck as I neared my rural home. When he walked up beside my window, I already had out my DL, Ins, reg. papers out (I laminate these documents when I get them) and put my concealed pistol permit right on top and handed them to him. I watched his face for a reaction and there was none. He explained that I had a brake light out, the reason for the stop. I told him I had the bulbs at home and would gladly repair the light and meet him at the end of his shift, to show him the repair. (The post is only a few miles away) He nodded and disappeared with my paperwork.
    Only a couple of minutes passed and he returned with my papers and stated I hadn't had a ticket in quite a few years, (25 actually) and he didn't want to be the one to break my streak. I explained that it wasn't a lucky "streak", I just don't drive like a jerk.
    He wished me good day and said there was no need to demonstrate the fix.
    Not one word was ever uttered about my gun, if it was on my person, in the vehicle somewhere, or anything.
    A very polite young man, and my hat's off to the MSP.

  16. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ranchrifle View Post
    I am a very passive driver and do not get stopped for traffic violations, so I wondered why the Mich. State Trooper lit-em-up behind me in my work truck as I neared my rural home. When he walked up beside my window, I already had out my DL, Ins, reg. papers out (I laminate these documents when I get them) and put my concealed pistol permit right on top and handed them to him. I watched his face for a reaction and there was none. He explained that I had a brake light out, the reason for the stop. I told him I had the bulbs at home and would gladly repair the light and meet him at the end of his shift, to show him the repair. (The post is only a few miles away) He nodded and disappeared with my paperwork.
    Only a couple of minutes passed and he returned with my papers and stated I hadn't had a ticket in quite a few years, (25 actually) and he didn't want to be the one to break my streak. I explained that it wasn't a lucky "streak", I just don't drive like a jerk.
    He wished me good day and said there was no need to demonstrate the fix.
    Not one word was ever uttered about my gun, if it was on my person, in the vehicle somewhere, or anything.
    A very polite young man, and my hat's off to the MSP.
    You did what I consider the intelligent thing, which is to simply present your carry permit along with your DL, registration and proof of insurance without making any speeches about anything. You let the officer be in charge of his traffic stop. It worked for you as it did for me.

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