November 13th, 2008 07:43 PM
CC notification during Burglar alarm call...
So, I had to notify an LEO that I am a CHP holder for the first time (NC requires notification upon being addressed by an officer)...
I was at home in the middle of the afternoon, and noticed a police car had parked out front, blocking the driveway (which is shared with the neighbor). After a few seconds, I realized the officer was not in the car, so I went outside on my front porch and heard the crunching sounds of someone walking along the gravel driveway...
Rather than peaking around the side of the house and spooking the guy, I walked down the steps into the yard and came around the house to find the officer with his gun drawn, in one hand held against the seem of his pants while he walked around my neighbor's house (which I happen to have listed for sale).
I ask what's going on, he says a motion sensor has gone off in the house, and have I seen anyone over there. I say no and he asks me to stay at the front of the house while he goes around back.
"If someone comes running out the front yell," he said.
I decided now was a good time to let him know I had a CHP and was armed.
"Are you armed right now?" he asked. At my nod, he said, "Then if someone comes out the house, draw down on them."
Of course, no one did and a few minutes later his back-up arrived.
Once they ensured the house was secure, the first officer cam over and asked what I carried and we chatted a little bit.
NOw I know an offcer, if asked whether he wants/needs assistance fomr a LAC, can authorize an LAC to act on their behalf (i.e. "deputize" them), but I thought it was rather odd that he did so so casually.
Anybody else run into this? And LEO's have any experience with doing this?
November 13th, 2008 07:57 PM
Wow, that really put you in an awkward position! Imagine the headlines if was a need for you to use your weapon. Glad all worked well for you.
November 13th, 2008 08:06 PM
wow is right. Most officers would not of said that I would guess. Sounds like a bit of a liability but whatever, im sure some leo can set us staight.
"In those days, there was a lot more respect for other people and it showed in peoples values.... Today the word value means nothing more than something you get on the $1 menu at McDonald's." -BARK'N
November 13th, 2008 08:42 PM
North Carolina General Statutes: GS_15A-404 and GS_15A-405
§ 15A‑404. Detention of offenders by private persons.
(a) No Arrest; Detention Permitted. – No private person may arrest another person except as provided in G.S. 15A‑405. A private person may detain another person as provided in this section.
(c) Manner of Detention. – The detention must be in a reasonable manner considering the offense involved and the circumstances of the detention.
§ 15A‑405. Assistance to law‑enforcement officers by private persons to effect arrest or prevent escape
(a) Assistance upon Request; Authority. – Private persons may assist law‑enforcement officers in effecting arrests and preventing escapes from custody when requested to do so by the officer. When so requested, a private person has the same authority to effect an arrest or prevent escape from custody as the officer making the request. He does not incur civil or criminal liability for an invalid arrest unless he knows the arrest to be invalid. Nothing in this subsection constitutes justification for willful, malicious or criminally negligent conduct by such person which injures or endangers any person or property, nor shall it be construed to excuse or justify the use of unreasonable or excessive force.
I hope that helps.
November 13th, 2008 08:44 PM
Glad you had a good encounter with the LEO. It never hurts to know some LEO's or have them know who you are. Assuming your not the one they are interested in.
Not knowing what the law is in NC, if you were on your property and there was somone treaspassing there would be no liability in "drawing down" on them if they were running from an officer or were not there with permission.
Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
Texas CHL Instructor
Texas Hunter Education Instructor
November 13th, 2008 09:39 PM
Looks like 15A-405 kinda covers his instructions. Interesting situation that he put you in. What was running through your mind until his backup arrived?
Originally Posted by larefugee
Sometimes in life you have to stand your ground. It's a hard lesson to learn and even most adults don't get it, but in the end only I can be responsible for my life. If faced with any type of adversity, only I can overcome it. Waiting for someone else to take responsibility is a long fruitless wait.
November 13th, 2008 10:57 PM
Very good. You must have impressed him as very mature, competent & reliable.
An armed populace are called citizens.
An unarmed populace are called subjects.
November 14th, 2008 12:23 AM
In visiting a pal in South Florida, he was a Sgt; in the Town Police, he asked me if I wanted to spend a day with him. Yes said I.
After our Coffee (he was a Sgt;) we hit the rd, first call "Known Signal 20 very loud music, this was morning.
Don said I have been here B/4.. Knock Knock, "Police" "How do I know you are the Police?" Ma-rm, the Uniform and Badge should be a clue"
"OK I am just getting my purse". Watch the back I was told "If she comes out the back, do I shoot her?" "No you don't shoot her!" No one appreciates Brit humor any more.
Out she comes, from the front, big purse, and very big Teddy Bear!
I opened the door of her car, she did have her hands full, "Where do you want the Teddy Bear?" "On the passenger seat" "Shall I put the seat belt on Teddy?" "Don't be silly" she said "It's only a Teddy bear"
We waited till she drove off, b/4 we fell against each other and laughed till we cried!
November 14th, 2008 12:36 AM
I have been in similar situations a couple times. In FL, I don't have to notify the officer. If I see an officer (or several) on the street with guns drawn, I typically stay inside. No need to spook them. If it was me who called them, I step outside as I see them approach and make sure they see me clearly (and I casually keep my hands visible... e.g. don't keep them on my back). Once or twice, the dispatcher asked me if I was armed or not as I called something in (typically a drug deal)
In my experience, most officers just want you to stay out of the way, in particular if they don't know you.
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. (Thomas Jefferson)
November 14th, 2008 08:26 AM
wow, thats cool. thanks for posting this.
Originally Posted by larefugee
November 14th, 2008 09:42 AM
This has come up a few times. While a citizen always has the right to detain a BG in the act of committing a crime (what is colloquially called 'citizen's arrest'), in NC they make a sharp distinction between detention (where you make the BG sit down and stay still) and arrest (which means transporting the BG someplace else for holding).
So, without the LEO's request, you would be violating the law if you drew on the BG and made him walk to the patrol car. That would be an arrest. With the LEO's request, you are fully able to direct the BG once he is detained.
NC seems to be the only state that makes this distinction, by the way. Every place else, once you detained a BG it would be entirely legal to move him to the nearest police station or policeman for transfer of custody. In NC you have to have the cops come get him.
What is a moderate interpretation of [the Constitution]? Halfway between what it says and [...] what you want it to say? Justice Antonin Scalia
SIG: P220R SS Elite SAO, P220R SAO, P220R Carry, P226R Navy, P226, P239/.40S&W, P2022/.40S&W; GSR 5", P6.
November 14th, 2008 10:40 AM
Here in Virginia that is also allowed. If you are requested by an officer here to assist them and you fail to do so you can even be charged. That is pretty casual conversation at a time like that.
November 14th, 2008 03:10 PM
Other than deciding to move off the edge of my lawn (which has a about a 2-foot steep slope, since I was wearing smooth soled shoes) and repositioning myself on the gravel drive (which has the benifit of another 2-foot hill up to the neighbor's lawn, thereby giving myself some low cover and placing my hand on the butt of the pistol, still shielded by the jacket.
Originally Posted by First Sgt
It didn't really feel like a big deal, other than immediately running scenarious through my head of what I would do if someone DID come running out. Other than allowing me to draw immediaetly (i,.e. not having to wait for immenent threat) and not having to worry about the officer's reaction to finding me standing there with a gun, I don't think it really changed my "tactical" decision tree... just freed it up a lot.
The only thing that seemed/felt odd to me (since I knew of the law cited in an earlier post [but not the cite]), was the casual nature in which the officer did it.
Given the events of the previous few days (two broad-daylight murders in two-days), I guess I am not surprised.
November 14th, 2008 03:18 PM
In North Carolina (unless acting on behalf of police officer) drawing down on someone who was tresspassing would be felony brandishing, especially since this was not on my property, but my neighbor's.
Originally Posted by farronwolf
Without the officer authorizing me to "drawn down on him," I would have had to wait to even draw my weapon until there was iminent threat of death or serious bodily harm and retreat was not an option.
November 14th, 2008 09:54 PM
The only comment I've gotten from an LEO was.... I'm glad to see some CC people living here, and I hope if I'm ever in trouble or need help that you are around at the time.
Small town near a large city, major highway though and stop. They know, county deputies are a long way from getting there if they need help, except around dinner time. LOL. He knows I worked in the system too and my background, so that helps.
I just told him, "you got it".
By maddy345 in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
Last Post: April 9th, 2010, 01:38 PM
By Kaneco in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
Last Post: August 2nd, 2009, 09:36 PM
By preachertim in forum In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
Last Post: March 30th, 2009, 01:39 AM
By XD in SC in forum Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion
Last Post: September 14th, 2008, 04:21 PM
By Squawker in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
Last Post: December 4th, 2006, 10:04 AM
Search tags for this page
Click on a term to search for related topics.
» DefensiveCarry Sponsors