A strange question from a strange member...

This is a discussion on A strange question from a strange member... within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I just returned home from a get-away to Florida provided to my wife and I by a very old Navy Sea Bee friend of mine. ...

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Thread: A strange question from a strange member...

  1. #1
    Member Array Scrvoy's Avatar
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    Question A strange question from a strange member...

    I just returned home from a get-away to Florida provided to my wife and I by a very old Navy Sea Bee friend of mine. He owns a fishing charter business and took my wife and I along on a charter. Before we left he informed me that he would feel a whole lot better out on the water if I were carrying. Without even thinking about it I naturally strapped my G19 under my left arm and we went fishing. Most of the trip was in federal waters going out 57 miles off the coast of Florida. We caught a lot of fish and had a great time, I even landed a 31 pound Amber Jack with the reel broken completely off of my pole!


    My question is, I have SC and a NH permits and after I returned to the house I got to wondering if my permits covered me while on the boat. Technically I was no longer in Florida after we passed the 9 mile mark. We did not encounter any LEOs and no one on the boat knew I had the gun except my wife and my friend. Did I break the law? Or was I legal? Thanks for you help.
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  3. #2
    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrvoy View Post
    I just returned home from a get-away to Florida provided to my wife and I by a very old Navy Sea Bee friend of mine. He owns a fishing charter business and took my wife and I along on a charter. Before we left he informed me that he would feel a whole lot better out on the water if I were carrying. Without even thinking about it I naturally strapped my G19 under my left arm and we went fishing. Most of the trip was in federal waters going out 57 miles off the coast of Florida. We caught a lot of fish and had a great time, I even landed a 31 pound Amber Jack with the reel broken completely off of my pole!


    My question is, I have SC and a NH permits and after I returned to the house I got to wondering if my permits covered me while on the boat. Technically I was no longer in Florida after we passed the 9 mile mark. We did not encounter any LEOs and no one on the boat knew I had the gun except my wife and my friend. Did I break the law? Or was I legal? Thanks for you help.
    All you would have to do is claim utter innocence or ignorance I would imagine. You started out in a place where your weapons permit was valid, and lines are not well defined in waters. They may be international waters, or US waters. Point is that you knew when you left Florida waterways as posted? I would guess that you would be at risk for whomever comes across your vessel out in the open sea and their demeanor or SOP for such occurrences. I don't figure there's ever been any precedent set. I'd think you would be taking a risk, but then again.......you did say you knew when you left Florida waters...to me, that would seem to be evidence that you knew where you were when you worried about it. Therefore, ignorance may be the best policy, but it may not mean you won't be giving up your weapon if requested by the local or territorial powers that be on the high seas. By no means would I insist you did anything illegal, but I am sure you can find the answer you're looking for short of becoming an inmate at any US or foreign prison. Word of advice...next time you know you are leaving territorial waterways, put your pistol in the ship's stow and secure it. That way there should be no question. Again, don't take anything I've said as the gospel truth. It's just my simple opinion bases solely on common sense.

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    VIP Member Array JonInNY's Avatar
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    This is not a legal opinion, but just what I think may be common sense.

    I would assume that the boat you were on had a GPS. This would certainly show when you left US waters, and if you entered other country's waters.

    I believe, that as long as you are not in another country's territorial waters, you are ok because you are in international waters, although you might be subject to US law because you are a US registered craft.

    I am also reasonabaly sure that as long as you are not carrying heavy weapons or ordnance, you are safe. You may wish to check the US Maritime websites for more info.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch; Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
    -- Benjamin Franklin

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    Member Array athos76's Avatar
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    I went out with friends on the boat and carried. We passed into international waters... on the way back in, we got stopped by Marine Patrol. They asked us if there were any "illegal" weapons on board. We said no, and then my friends wife said that we were carrying. They thanked her and asked us why we didn't inform them. I repeated the "illegal" portion of the question and they laughed. They checked our CWP and sent us on our way. I never asked about the int'l waters part...
    "carrying a gun is a lot lighter than carrying a cop in your pocket" -MrTwice99

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    VIP Member Array hogdaddy's Avatar
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    Good ?????

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    Senior Member Array puncho's Avatar
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    International waters, is international law...

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    Member Array banana's Avatar
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    International Maritime law might apply.

    There is a provision if the intent of the trip is fishing, but I'm not exactly sure how that would change jurisdiction.

    I think that the boundary of the territorial sea claimed by coastal states is limited to 12 nautical miles. (see 1982 act)
    When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns.

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    Member Array tflhndn's Avatar
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    First, while international waters are at 12 miles, state laws only apply out to 3 miles.

    Secondly, once outside the state's jurisdictions, the captain of a vessel in international waters controls who may be armed until that ships docks in port and then becomes subject to port's laws.

    Third, while I am have no idea on how Florida treats carry in a boat on the ocean, As a resident of SC, your SC permit is valid in Florida (ironic, that one of the most poular non=resident permit states only honors resident permits).

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    Senior Member Array KenInColo's Avatar
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    I think I would carry on one of those too. I have heard of pirates stealing pleasure boats out at sea, and they don't just set you adrift in a dingy either.
    An armed populace are called citizens.
    An unarmed populace are called subjects.

  11. #10
    Senior Member Array older gunner's Avatar
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    I thought that once in international waters, the ships captain determined rules regarding firearms. I don't boat, but if I did, I'd sure have some firepower on board.

  12. #11
    Member Array larefugee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by athos76 View Post
    They asked us if there were any "illegal" weapons on board. We said no, and then my friends wife said that we were carrying.
    That blabber-mouth! "Pay no attention to this crazy lady, officer :-)"

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    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    I'm a land mammal - I don't do water. Good question though, I am looking forward to someone posting exact law on this one.
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

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    VIP Member Array David in FL's Avatar
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    Not a strange question at all. Comes up all the time down here.

    You were perfectly legal, both in FL waters and outside of them.

    Had you ventured into waters controlled by another state that didn't recognize your permits, or into the waters of another country.....say the Bahamas, you would have been in violation of their laws.

    On a related note.....IMHO, anyone who ventures offshore on a boat and isn't armed is at risk these days. Nuts, druggies, and pirates are a very real threat and a single boat makes a very easy (and often lucrative) target.
    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in a grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."

    Theodore Roosevelt

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