Debunking the Liberals-hate-guns myth

Debunking the Liberals-hate-guns myth

This is a discussion on Debunking the Liberals-hate-guns myth within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; This is a subject I've been working on for a long time. I've always felt that the simplication of "liberals hate guns" was a terribly ...

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Thread: Debunking the Liberals-hate-guns myth

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array BlackPR's Avatar
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    Debunking the Liberals-hate-guns myth

    This is a subject I've been working on for a long time. I've always felt that the simplication of "liberals hate guns" was a terribly misguided approach that necessarily alienates a large portion of the gun owning, gun-supporting culture -- when indeed, the sensible thing to do would be to "embrace gun supporting liberals".

    I've seen conversations in the past where folks will even deny that it's *possible* for a liberal to support guns.

    Well, if ever there was a time to reach out... it is now. If ever there were a time to "embrace" it's certainly now. At least on this issue.

    Paul Helmke, nutcase from the Brady Campaign wrote an editorial two days ago on the notoriously liberal "Huffington Post" regarding Plaxico Burress and those evil guns in general. What's interesting about this link is not Helmke's article -- which is the standard brady BS, and really not worth reading -- but the comments after the article. The comments on a notoriously left, liberal site with overwhelmingly liberal readers.... The comments are almost universally PRO-2a.

    Pay attention, folks... and don't look a gift horse in the mouth by roundly bashing "Liberals" under the (mostly mistaken) assumption that Liberal=Anti:

    Paul Helmke: Plaxico Burress Shoots Himself Into The Gun Debate

    We would be much better served by removing left and right from this debate and focusing heartily on pro and anti... They are NOT the same.

    Now, please excuse me whilst I don my asbestos underwear.
    The facts are indisputable. There is more data supporting the benefits of Conceal Carry than there is supporting global warming. If you choose ignorance, in light of all the evidence, in order to bolster your irrational fear of guns, you are a greater threat to society than any gun owner.


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array rodc13's Avatar
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    Very good point, BlackPR!

    As I've often said, we are better off with pro-2a supporters on both sides of the aisle than in putting all our eggs in one basket.
    Cheers,
    Rod
    "We're paratroopers. We're supposed to be surrounded!" Dick Winters

  3. #3
    Senior Member Array gilraen's Avatar
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    Thank you, thank you, BlackPR. I am a moderate who leans towards the liberal, and I am very much pro-gun. Yes, we do exist, and we need our voices to be heard.

    I *really* like this site, but every time I see an "I hate liberals", or "stupid liberal anti-gunners", or the mod who has an avatar with a gun and the word liberal in it (can't even read the small print), I just want to scream.

    I am not stupid. I am not anti-gun. I am not pro "nanny state." I love my country and my constitution. I am a nice person, and will bend over backward to help someone who has fallen in life get back on their feet. If you hate me because I'm not conservative, that's your loss.

    My CHL teacher said "every democrat is my enemy." That kind of stupidity is not only useless but works against all of us who are pro-2A.

    We need to work together to keep and strengthen our rights, not do stupid name calling, just because of some labels we use, or that someone else slaps on us.
    "I pledge allegiance to the war banner of the united states of Totalitaria. And to the Republic, which no longer stands, several bankers, who are now god, indivisible, with Bernanke bucks and credit for all."

  4. #4
    CDH
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    But then reality bites you in the butt.
    Every major top-level Democrat/Liberal would like to make guns illegal in this country.

    This is all you have to remember:
    Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., on CBS "60 Minutes": "If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States for an outright ban, picking up every one of them -- Mr. and Mrs. America, turn them all in -- I would have done it."

    Sure, lots of "ordinary citizen" Liberals support the 2nd Amendment.
    I get that. But don't confuse that with how things go when the Liberals/Democrats/Socialists at the top are in charge.

    To think anything else is only fooling one's self.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Array gilraen's Avatar
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    I'm not fooling myself in believing that Obama is not an idiot, either. He may want to do a wholesale ban, but he's almost certainly not going to. And I agree with your assessment that most all of the top-level people are anti-gun. There is definitely a correlation between the fact that most demo leaders come from Cali and New England, and that those areas are more anti-gun.

    Instead of vilifying democratic leaders, we need to get more pro-gun leaders into office -- even as sleepers, as conservative christians did to the republican party.

    Of course that might backfire, just like it did on the repubs.

    Education is the key.
    "I pledge allegiance to the war banner of the united states of Totalitaria. And to the Republic, which no longer stands, several bankers, who are now god, indivisible, with Bernanke bucks and credit for all."

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    VIP Member Array edr9x23super's Avatar
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    The problem with liberals is this:

    It is OK to ban guns for all the common people, but just make the guns available to the people that really need them.

    Now, that statement personifies what they are really all about. I make that statement because many of my family members are big-time blue-blooder Obama voting liberals. Their logic is that guns should only be allowed for the police, the military, and in very special circumstances. When I pressed them for the definition of "special circumstances" the answers I got were for people like VIPs & movie stars. You know, important people. So now we are back to the old class warfare thing.

    I just tell my liberal family members nowadays that if it wasn't for us gun owners, you wouldn't have the freedoms that you have......
    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined". - Patrick Henry

  7. #7
    Senior Member Array BlackPR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDH View Post
    Sure, lots of "ordinary citizen" Liberals support the 2nd Amendment.
    I get that. But don't confuse that with how things go when the Liberals/Democrats/Socialists at the top are in charge.

    To think anything else is only fooling one's self.
    Ultimately, those leader answer to the American people, and they answer even more so to their constituents. Such statements are not cause to stomp your feet and declare "bad liberals!" it's an opportunity to educate their constituents.

    When you pigeonhole it as "liberals" you aren't taking a single vote away from that person. When you label it for what it is, anti-gun policies, then you dig right into their constituency. The part of that constituency that doesn't actively follow gun issues, but who care about guns none-the-less should be targeted in response to such statements -- once you paint them with the broad brush of "all liberals" you've lost their interest.
    The facts are indisputable. There is more data supporting the benefits of Conceal Carry than there is supporting global warming. If you choose ignorance, in light of all the evidence, in order to bolster your irrational fear of guns, you are a greater threat to society than any gun owner.

  8. #8
    VIP Member Array AllAmerican's Avatar
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    I totally agree with the OP that we should band together. I also think liberals should vote for pro2a candidates and quit putting in anti 2a folks.

    This goes for the other side of the aisle too.

    Here in SC this past election Repubs voted straight ticket and in doing so elected a Repub senator who was less Pro2a than the Dem who ran against him.

    People need to know about BOTH candidates and not just what were spoon fed by the media.

  9. #9
    CDH
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    Quote Originally Posted by gilraen View Post
    I'm not fooling myself in believing that Obama is not an idiot, either. He may want to do a wholesale ban, but he's almost certainly not going to. And I agree with your assessment that most all of the top-level people are anti-gun. There is definitely a correlation between the fact that most demo leaders come from Cali and New England, and that those areas are more anti-gun.

    Instead of vilifying democratic leaders, we need to get more pro-gun leaders into office -- even as sleepers, as conservative christians did to the republican party.

    Of course that might backfire, just like it did on the repubs.

    Education is the key.
    Well, if you want to talk about "sleepers", then you might want to see exactly how you lost your party to Socialists. This was written by a real-life, card carrying Socialist:

    Are the Democrats the 'Third Party' we've been looking for

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    Senior Member Array gilraen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edr9x23super View Post
    The problem with liberals is this:
    And the problem with "the problem with liberals is" that you have done exactly what we dislike -- lumping us all together.

    I just tell my liberal family members nowadays that if it wasn't for us gun owners, you wouldn't have the freedoms that you have......
    You're probably right. But don't lump ME in with your family. I don't belong there.
    "I pledge allegiance to the war banner of the united states of Totalitaria. And to the Republic, which no longer stands, several bankers, who are now god, indivisible, with Bernanke bucks and credit for all."

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    Senior Member Array gilraen's Avatar
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    Mods, please don't delete the OP. It's a good point, and wasn't meant to start a political war.
    "I pledge allegiance to the war banner of the united states of Totalitaria. And to the Republic, which no longer stands, several bankers, who are now god, indivisible, with Bernanke bucks and credit for all."

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    Senior Member Array BlackPR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edr9x23super View Post
    The problem with liberals is this:

    It is OK to ban guns for all the common people, but just make the guns available to the people that really need them.
    .
    Let me rephrase this for you to make my point:

    The problem with some anti-gunners is this:

    It is OK to ban guns for all the common people, but just make the guns available to the people that really need them.

    Because I certainly know liberals that that statement does not apply to. Anti-Gunners TEND to be liberal, but not all Liberals are anti-gun. And for that matter, not all anti-gunners are liberal.
    The facts are indisputable. There is more data supporting the benefits of Conceal Carry than there is supporting global warming. If you choose ignorance, in light of all the evidence, in order to bolster your irrational fear of guns, you are a greater threat to society than any gun owner.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Array gilraen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPR View Post
    And for that matter, not all anti-gunners are liberal.
    Boy that's for sure. My boss is an evangelical christian, and a strong conservative. And he's not pro-gun in the least.
    "I pledge allegiance to the war banner of the united states of Totalitaria. And to the Republic, which no longer stands, several bankers, who are now god, indivisible, with Bernanke bucks and credit for all."

  14. #14
    Ron
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    I don't see how anyone can take issue with the basic point BlackPR made in his post. He was not suggesting that we pretend that the Brady people and their ilk are not out to ban guns, nor that we ignore the fervent anti-gun politicians.

    Only that we don't automaticly put every "Liberal" in the anti-gun anti-Second Amendment category. That there are many people who call themselves Liberals who can be brought over to our side by reason and logic, and that we are missing an opportunity by not trying to do so. Particularly at this time, when we need all the support we can get.

    At least I think that was the point he was making. BlackPR, please correct me if I mis-read your post.
    "It does not do to leave a dragon out of your calculations, if you live near him."

    J. R. R. Tolkien

  15. #15
    Senior Member Array BlackPR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron View Post
    At least I think that was the point he was making. BlackPR, please correct me if I mis-read your post.
    You are absolutely spot on. I'm one who thinks that the gun debate is, due to overwhelming evidence and statistics, somethings that's reduced to indisputable facts in favor of gun ownership. Maroons like the Brady bunch use emotional manipulation, twisted or selective "facts," fear and rhetoric to reach a political ends.

    In a sense, we're a victim of liberal and conservative politicians who polarize issues as much as possible in order to get people to vote party lines. The example used earlier of the anti-gun republican who won out over the pro-gun dem is a perfect example. Odds are, folks went into the voting booth and if they were voting "pro-gun" they voted republican. If they voted "anti-gun" they voted dem. Make no mistake that they like a polarized electorate.

    In the end, this favors political parties -- but doesn't help the electorate at all.

    Our *best* way forward is for gun's to be non-partisan. Non-partisan pro-2A will enjoy much more support than partisan pro-2A, without exception. That doesn't mean compromise at all, it means removing the word "liberal" from in front of the phrase "gun grabbers".
    The facts are indisputable. There is more data supporting the benefits of Conceal Carry than there is supporting global warming. If you choose ignorance, in light of all the evidence, in order to bolster your irrational fear of guns, you are a greater threat to society than any gun owner.

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