Don't use reloaded ammo for defense?

Don't use reloaded ammo for defense?

This is a discussion on Don't use reloaded ammo for defense? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I got into a discussion at the gun counter at Gander Mountain with a gentleman regarding .380 ammo. It seems that our Gander Mountain doesn't ...

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Thread: Don't use reloaded ammo for defense?

  1. #1
    Member Array cl00bie's Avatar
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    Question Don't use reloaded ammo for defense?

    I got into a discussion at the gun counter at Gander Mountain with a gentleman regarding .380 ammo. It seems that our Gander Mountain doesn't carry Federal Hydro-shoks, Cor-Bon or any of the other hot defensive rounds.

    I was talking about the possibility of reloading a decent defensive ammo, and the guy said: "Don't ever do that, if a lawyer finds out you reload, he could crucify you in front of a jury if you were ever involved in a shoot".

    I hadn't heard that, and it really doesn't make sense to me. If I use a deadly weapon to stop a perp, does it matter that the ammo I'm using is as hot as ammo I could buy over the counter?

    I just bought 200 90gr Speer Gold Dots and I just reloaded 50 rounds of ammo using the lightest charge listed in the Speer reloading manual. I'm going to try them out at the range tomorrow since I zeroed the laser on my LCP last week, and I'm hitting the red dot on the target at 10 yards.

    What are your thoughts?

    (Mods, I didn't know if this was a CC issue discussion, an ammo discussion or a reloading discussion. Move it where it needs to go if it's wrong.)
    -Tony

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  2. #2
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    Some names in defensive training have voiced concern over the use of reloads being construed as pre meditated planning to kill. If this has ever been actually used in a court proceeding I don't know.
    "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson


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  3. #3
    Senior Member Array walvord's Avatar
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    Yes, I've heard of that too. Not wanting to take any chances, I just use the commercial stuff. At the range, it wouldn't matter. I don't want to give the lawyers any other angle to get a conviction if it came down to reloads v. new ammo.
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    Senior Member Array WC145's Avatar
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    I agree, anything that can be used against you will be. No sense in creating opportunity for the other side.

    I always suggest finding out what ammo local law enforcement carries and then load your carry guns with the same brand/line. If it's good enough for them, it's good enough for you too.

  5. #5
    Member Array Ricebrnr's Avatar
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    Because you don't want to open up the argument that YOU created more deadly bullets to use against other human beings (OH MY!)

    But also because investigators will not be able to do simple ballistics tests to confirm your side of the story. They'll have to take your word on how you loaded the cartridges in your gun.

    Search Ayoob and reloads for self defense, much more details in there.

    Bottom line, better to buy and use the same things your local LEO's use if possible to forstall any arguments they may try to use against you in the ammunition department.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Array preachertim's Avatar
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    I only carry store bought ammo! Some of my reloads I would love to carry. Got em down to tack drivin in my 45
    Why Would A Preacher ever need a Gun? Its Not for the Sheep , its for the Wolves!

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  7. #7
    Senior Member Array Landric's Avatar
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    Given my experience with the criminal justice system, I'd say there isn't much chance that the fact you were using handloaded ammunition would even come up, unless the ammunition in question was obviously handloaded. I also don't recall ever seeing anyone with a documented case of use of handloaded ammunition being used against someone in court.

    That said, it could happen. The primary reason I carry factory ammo is that it tends to be more reliable than reloaded ammunition. I am sure I could make perfectly good handloads that were just as reliable as factory if I used new brass, but between buying new brass, good defensive bullets, etc., I wouldn't be saving any money over the factory ammo anyway.

    If I found myself involved in a shooting where I used handloads I simply wouldn't mention it unless asked. The chances of being asked are pretty low.
    -Landric

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  8. #8
    Ex Member Array AVIVIII's Avatar
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    I love reloading and I can't think of any good reason not to use manufactured ammo. The local PDs all use Gold Dots, so thats what I use.

    I have developed a couple JHP loads for my .357 and 9mm, and I can't get them much, if any better than factory speer ammo.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Array KenInColo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Landric View Post
    Given my experience with the criminal justice system, I'd say there isn't much chance that the fact you were using handloaded ammunition would even come up, unless the ammunition in question was obviously handloaded. I also don't recall ever seeing anyone with a documented case of use of handloaded ammunition being used against someone in court.
    NJ v. Daniel Bias

    You never want to be in a position of manufacturing the evidence that will be used against you. Even if you kept detailed notes regarding the load, the prosecution/plaintiff would object to their admission and the judge would sustain.

    Quote Originally Posted by Landric View Post
    That said, it could happen. The primary reason I carry factory ammo is that it tends to be more reliable than reloaded ammunition. I am sure I could make perfectly good handloads that were just as reliable as factory if I used new brass, but between buying new brass, good defensive bullets, etc., I wouldn't be saving any money over the factory ammo anyway.

    If I found myself involved in a shooting where I used handloads I simply wouldn't mention it unless asked. The chances of being asked are pretty low.
    You wouldn't have to mention it. They will be able to tell from the get go. And your chances of being asked are, oh, I'd say, about 100%!

    Use the same ammo the LEOs use and that way, your attorney can get one of them to testify as an expert witness on your behalf.

    If you use handloaded ammo, I guarantee you that at trial, the prosecutor/plaintiff attorney is going to tell the jury that you didn't want ammo to "stop the threat", you wanted ammo that would kill; that's why you loaded your own. Also, you want to use factory ammo so that the police can get samples (by Lot #) to duplicate the load exactly.
    An armed populace are called citizens.
    An unarmed populace are called subjects.

  10. #10
    Distinguished Member Array nutz4utwo's Avatar
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    Keep within the lines of commercially available and standard firearms and ammo. Logic would assume that deadly force was meant to be "deadly", but logic is not part of the question here. We all remember the whole black talon fiasco. Media, sheep, and juries tend to get scared of scary sounding things.

  11. #11
    Member Array Durhamgoat's Avatar
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    Out here in California its best to use factory ammo, retain the original packaging and at least one of the rounds in the box. We have been advised that retaining this gives us a proper rebuttal for my defense attorney should one be necessary.
    Just my .02
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  12. #12
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    Factory for feel safe reliability.

    Keep the original packaging and 1 round from it in the box. Oh goody, another wrap on the noose.

    "I used Federal HST because they have proven in multiple scientific tests by LEO agencies to not have excessive penetration, to reduce the risk of causing injury or death to an innocent if in the process of stopping the threat, the projectile passes through the suspected assailant."...Yeah, like I will get to say that in court.
    Sticks

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  13. #13
    Member Array Geezer Glide's Avatar
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    A lot of people have seemed to have "Heard" a story about this, or "Someone Said" only use factory ammo. But no one has ever given any proof, ie:actual court cases, to back this up.

  14. #14
    Member Array ChiWeiSz's Avatar
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    My CHL class in TX said to always use factory for protective carry, for two reasons;
    1. Reliability, you want it to work, every time, hopefully you will never need to, but if you do, you don't want to find out you forgot a key component in your reload, and it misfires, etc.
    2. As the afore mentioned legal problems. Why ask for more problems. Sort of like wearing a t-shirt that says, "Nuke 'em all, shoot 'em in the dark" or "Shoot 'em all, let God sort them out" - it is the INTENT that will get us nailed.

    Just adding my two cents, and maybe a third cent for good measure
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  15. #15
    Member Array Double Naught Spy's Avatar
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    I agree, anything that can be used against you will be.
    Yes, including your choice to use factory ammo. Look at the Harold Fish case.
    Considering yourself to be defenseless is the first administrative step to becoming a victim.

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