Feeling naked...sometimes just want to carry and forget about it.
This is a discussion on Feeling naked...sometimes just want to carry and forget about it. within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Anyone else ever get into a mess like this. I did disregard a work related, in the parking lot, rule a few weeks back (as ...
December 11th, 2008 01:18 AM
Feeling naked...sometimes just want to carry and forget about it.
Anyone else ever get into a mess like this. I did disregard a work related, in the parking lot, rule a few weeks back (as a 3rd party vendor, I was told I was required to adhere to their no firearms on company policy). It was a few hours from home, and I did not want to drive that far with out a firearm. I broke down the firearm (Glock) and locked most of the parts in a lock box in the trunk, put the barrel in the seat compartment, and put the rounds and mag (stored rounds in seperate bag) in the locked glove box. I figure at that point I don't have a firearm, just gun parts.
When I go to church, I lock the CC in the glove box and lock it (has a lock). I unload the gun first (and keep the rounds with me). In MI, one of the place you can't CC is in a church (w/o pastor permission). Very doubtful the pastor would agree to a CC (there was a shooting a few years ago in another church that got some people startled and there is an attached school).
I know you could argue the shooting could make the argument that people should carry, but as a trustee of my parish, this is one issue I know enough to keep quit about, as I am out numbered (grey man theory in effect). Regardless, I think with the attached school, things would stir up fast if I made the suggestion.
As for just keeping it between the pastor and I, I have the feeling this issue would make him nervous, and I'm better off conforming to the no carry (so at least I can store the hand gun in the car). I have a feeling others would make problems just storing the unloaded handgun in the locked glove box.
I really feel the need to carry (as I don't like leaving a firearm unattended). Get so tempted to say who cares and just carry. Came real close the other day at the post office, but just did the right thing.
December 11th, 2008 01:37 AM
Well let me say this. As long as I am within right of the law, no one can tell me I do not have the right to protect myself. And honestly, I don't think the goverment has the right to tell me where I do and do not have the right to protect myself. But alas, I will do no help to the cause in jail, so I abide. If concealed means concealed, and it is merely violating a company policy, what is stopping you? Is your life worth more than your job?
Better to die on your feet, than to live on your knees.
December 11th, 2008 01:41 AM
Many churches provide their own security with parish members who can legally carry acting as an on-site protective force. They attend one service and hang around in the hallways keeping watch during the other. Perhaps as a trustee the right way to bring this up is from a liability for the safety of the congregation standpoint.
I have attended a Ridglea Baptist Church here in Fort Worth. They had a wacko come into their church in September of 1999 and kill seven people. They have no problem with concealed carry, and their members provide their own security, just like the church in Colorado Springs last year.
Once you get that idea introduced the idea of being one of those people might not be so intimidating to the pastor.
But if you are authorized to carry a weapon, and you walk outside without it, just take a deep breath, and say this to yourself...
LTC(RET) Dave Grossman
Revolutionary War Veterans Association Shooter Qualification: Cook
December 11th, 2008 09:27 AM
Its legal almost everywhere here to pack. We don't have to pay attention to signs from private owners either, thats silly. We're also allowed to pickup and drop off kids at school while packing. The only time I'm unarmed is when we're at one of my sons school functions. If a place doesn't "allow" firearms and its not a government building, I don't pay attention. My wife's work has a 'no firearm" policy, but I disregard it as I do any of the other ones. Some of our stores try to pull the sign nonsense, but I open carry a lot and I've only been stopped once at that was a bank. They only asked to see my permit and I moved on.
However, during school functions, I don't feel naked. I don't go in to any other place that I'm not allowed other than his school.
On a side note, I know I'll catch some slack for this, but the glove box is a bad idea. I have a safe bolted in that a blow torch couldn't get out. I don't know of any glove box that I couldn't get into in a second flat. I wouldn't want some scum bag taking my sidearm and committing a crime with it. an electronic safe is super cheap and a good one can be had for 30.00 or a state of the art biometric safe for 250.00 and you can bolt them in to your floor. Mines in a jeep and would take hours to remove, much more time than a criminal has to mess with it. Plus, its hiden so they wouldn't see it just strolling by.
They can't take your right to own a firearm. They can ask with force and you can answer any way you choose.
December 11th, 2008 10:58 AM
Your right about the glove box. Just were I put it for now. One of the few times I don't carry, so about an hour (not counting meetings) or so in a locked glove box.
December 11th, 2008 11:30 AM
I also live in Michigan and attend a church that is attached to a school. That being the case, I've wondered, even if I have the pastor's permission to carry in church, wouldn't I still be in violation of the "gun-free" school zone act because of the attached school?
December 11th, 2008 11:59 AM
We are blessed here in Florida with very few places we cannot carry, and signs posted by business are NON binding
And while I use to not carry a pistol to church, with all that’s going on these days, I now always carry a pistol to church
December 11th, 2008 12:21 PM
I learned something interesting in my CCW class recently. Apparently, while the signs are indeed non-binding in FL, trespassing while CCW is a felony (armed trespass). So, if you go an establishment which has posted signs, and you choose to ignore them, be sure you follow trespass laws completely. i.e., if management asks you to leave for any reason (even non CCW related), do so.
The class instructors stated merely carrying into a posted establishment is armed trespass. "Florida Firearms" thinks differently on this, as if it's a retail business, you are an invitee. i.e., they DO want your business. This is different than hopping a fence to someone's property with no trespassing signs posted.
December 11th, 2008 12:43 PM
--here in Nevada (thankfully) only the government offices, schools and some quasi-government areas (some libraries and hospitals) are off limits--some private entities do have "no carry" signs, but the only penalty is that you can be asked to leave, under penalty of trespass if you don't--
December 11th, 2008 01:37 PM
December 11th, 2008 03:28 PM
"Regardless, I think with the attached school, things would stir up fast if I made the suggestion."
"As for just keeping it between the pastor and I, I have the feeling this issue would make him nervous,"
So far you are basing your actions on what you think and what you feel. Until the subject is brought up and discussed you cannot say what people will do. What would be wrong with talking about the subject at hand with your minister and other members? Just because you discuss concealed carry doesn't mean your going to do it. I am a part time minister and I live in Michigan and I carry during services and I understand what your going through. We discussed this subject in our small church and everyone was comfortable with members who are trained CCW holders providing security on church property. We also practice together during IDPA matches and this has become a great way to fellowship with each other. So you see it can be done if it is approached correctly. If after having been discussed it is decided not to allow it then you might want to look into worshipping somewhere else because from your post it is plain to see that you are not comfortable with the way things are now.
If you cannot stand behind our troops feel free to stand in front of them.
GOD BLESS AMERICA!
If you are authorized to carry a weapon, and you walk outside without it, just take a deep breath, and say this to yourself..."Baa."
December 11th, 2008 05:04 PM
This is a question that has been raised before, as it relates to Florida law, where you don't need permission from the clergy to carry.
Originally Posted by rockriverguy
My take has been, in the case of my carrying to Friday night services at my Temple, that even though the pre-school is attached to the rest of the Temple, since school is not in session and is in a separate wing of the building, it is lawful for me to carry, and I do.
"It does not do to leave a dragon out of your calculations, if you live near him."
J. R. R. Tolkien
December 11th, 2008 05:09 PM
First off, get your CCW.
Don't let your itinerary dictate where and when you carry. Carry all the time. You don't know where or when the S might HTF.
Originally Posted by Thanis
Breaking down the gun was a good idea but getting a 'car safe' as others mentioned is better. Many states who disallow carrying on school grounds will let you park your vehicle on school property if your firearm is locked in a secure compartment (a car safe, not console or glove box).
As far as carrying in church, there's a lot of history that says that you should indeed, carry in church.
Ultimately, it's your decision [where & when to carry] but if you take some courses, you will become aware that it could happen at any time and when it does, you won't be able to deal with it effectively unless you are armed (and trained).
Last edited by KenInColo; December 11th, 2008 at 05:16 PM.
Reason: Added last two paragraphs
An armed populace are called citizens.
An unarmed populace are called subjects.
December 11th, 2008 07:05 PM
Mr. Kimber goes to church with my wife and I...if trouble comes our way, he CAN 'sing' loudly...
Stay armed...gotta' love FL...stay safe!
Proverbs 27:12 says: “The prudent see danger and take refuge, but the simple keep going and suffer for it.”
Certified Glock Armorer
NRA Life Member
December 11th, 2008 07:30 PM
I'm a musician at my church and the pastor is my uncle. I've been given permission to carry because he received some threats from some guys who came in one sunday. I don't carry openly (it is a Concealed Carry Weapons permit) because I'm sure visitors and people who don't know that i carry would probably frown upon that. But even before he gave me permission I ALWAYS carried there and everywhere else. With most public places the only thing they can ask you to do is leave. God forbid if a situation comes up where the bad guys are coming in, they're going to wish someone was armed. I'm armed 98% of the time, its feels like my XD .45 has been surgically attached to my hip
As for the glove box, bad place. I used to keep a spare mag in the dashboard until someone broke into my car. First thing they did was open the glove box. When I came outside in the morning and made the discovery all my doors were open a window was shattered and my trunk was up as well. (PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT - DISABLE YOUR TRUNK RELEASE BUTTON THAT ALLOWS YOU OPEN THE TRUNK FROM THE INSIDE OF THE CAR PERMANENTLY).
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