Multi State Residence?

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    Distinguished Member Array T Bone's Avatar
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    Multi State Residence?

    Wondering if one can be a resident of more than one State? As an example, last year for several months I had an apartment in Las Vegas. During this time I also maintained my residence in Michigan. But let's say for argument's sake, both were permanent, and I went between the two.

    Could I then also obtain a Nevada driver's license, and establish legal residency and (as an example) purchase a firearm from an FFL in that State?

    My real purpose of being curious here, is whether one could also legally obtain resident concealed pistol (weapon etal) permit/license from the second State, while still maintaining the same in another State (and still legitimately maintaining residence there as well).

    Note: I know many States offer non-resident permits, and am familiar with reciprocity, but neither of these topics apply in my example here.

    Thanks in advance for any opinions/discussion especially if applicable legal sources are quoted (or not ).
    Regards, T Bone.


    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety". Benjamin Franklin

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    Member Array spensergig's Avatar
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    One Man, One Vote

    I'm kind of surprised at the question.


    You "reside" at only one place. Other places, you are a visitor.
    References:
    US Census rules
    US Voter Registration rules
    (most, if not all) State Homestead rules.
    (most, if not all) State Driver's License rules

    Shal I go on?

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    Quote Originally Posted by T Bone View Post
    Wondering if one can be a resident of more than one State? As an example, last year for several months I had an apartment in Las Vegas. During this time I also maintained my residence in Michigan. But let's say for argument's sake, both were permanent, and I went between the two.

    Could I then also obtain a Nevada driver's license, and establish legal residency and (as an example) purchase a firearm from an FFL in that State?

    My real purpose of being curious here, is whether one could also legally obtain resident concealed pistol (weapon etal) permit/license from the second State, while still maintaining the same in another State (and still legitimately maintaining residence there as well).

    Note: I know many States offer non-resident permits, and am familiar with reciprocity, but neither of these topics apply in my example here.

    Thanks in advance for any opinions/discussion especially if applicable legal sources are quoted (or not ).
    Sounds like a couple of issues wouldn't be permitted. I know here in the state of Georgia you can only have a drivers license for one state. Secondly to qualify to purchase a firearm without a permit you'd need a valid Georgia I.D. Thirdly, they're required before you even begin the finger printing process while trying to obtain your CCW here.
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    I think you cannot be a resident of two states. If you maintain two different residences in two different states, then the one that you have your drivers license and voter registration from, is the one you reside in. If you only have one residence, then that is your state of residence.
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    Member Array NavDoc's Avatar
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    Where are you paying property taxes and/or are registered to vote? That becomes your residence of record.

    In my CCW class, one guy opted to apply for permits both here in Louisiana and the Florida non-resident permit. The instructor did not even question it.

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    It is my understanding that you can only have a driver's license from one state at a time. Moreover, once you remain in one state, usually for 30 days, you must with a few exceptions get a dl from that state. It can be heck on folks who move around a lot or split their time in large chunks in two or more places--snowbirds not going to places that make accommodation for them such as FL or AZ.

    These are incredibly complex issues with fuzzy and conflicting answers. Definitions of things like residence, domicile, temporary, permanent, vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction (or are interpreted differently to assure the tax gets paid), and often both the local constabulary and the courts are utterly unhelpful resolving things. See example below. And then, there are issues of State Income Tax that involve residence and other sets of criteria come into play. A simple rule of thumb is, your residence is where you have stayed for 30 days or longer--unless trying to get in-state tuition; then they have different rules.

    I once read about a guy who lived (owned property) on both sides of the Wisconsin -MN border. He got grief on both sides. In MN they kept ticketing his truck because it wasn't registered in MN. I don't recall the specific problem in Wisconsin, but it was along the same lines. Maybe they insisted he needed a Wisconsin DL. Guy was stuck between a rock and a hard place and could please the constabulary and courts in neither place.

    When I was a kid we moved back and forth between NYC and a place in CT. To avoid being forced to get a new DL and re-register her car, my grandmother had to make monthly trips from one place to the other so she was never actually in CT for more than 30 consecutive days.

    I am going to guess that you can only get a residence CHL from one state at a time, the one in which your DL has been issued.

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    Distinguished Member Array nutz4utwo's Avatar
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    As others have said you can only realistically be a resident of one place. Having more then one drivers license, tax return... is often looked at as a sign of criminal activity or fraud.

    I believe there is a federal law that you can only purchase a pistol in your State of Residence. I would think it unwise to try and work around it.

    edit: here is some info:


    (B1) To whom may an unlicensed person transfer firearms under the GCA?

    A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may sell or transfer a firearm to a licensee in any State. However, a firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector.

    [18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(d), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]


    (B2) From whom may an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA?

    A person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee's premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.

    [18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]


    (B8) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?

    A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.

    [18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]

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    Senior Member Array rmarkob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nutz4utwo View Post
    As others have said you can only realistically be a resident of one place. Having more then one drivers license, tax return... is often looked at as a sign of criminal activity or fraud.

    I believe there is a federal law that you can only purchase a pistol in your State of Residence. I would think it unwise to try and work around it.
    Generally true, but I believe there are also exceptions for active duty military temporarily assigned to states away from their home of record. My son bought a Glock locally in Georgia last year, while his home of record, drivers license, etc. are PA. He also qualified for the Glock LEO discount.
    Clinging to guns and God in PA...

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    VIP Member Array AZ Husker's Avatar
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    While I don't know or care about the firearms laws, you can most certainly hold residence in more than one state. It happens frequently in the sunbelt states like Arizona or Florida. I've got part-time home owner neighbors from Canada who are here 6 months of the year.
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    Distinguished Member Array T Bone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    It is my understanding that you can only have a driver's license from one state at a time. Moreover, once you remain in one state, usually for 30 days, you must with a few exceptions get a dl from that state. It can be heck on folks who move around a lot or split their time in large chunks in two or more places--snowbirds not going to places that make accommodation for them such as FL or AZ.

    These are incredibly complex issues with fuzzy and conflicting answers. Definitions of things like residence, domicile, temporary, permanent, vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction (or are interpreted differently to assure the tax gets paid), and often both the local constabulary and the courts are utterly unhelpful resolving things. See example below. And then, there are issues of State Income Tax that involve residence and other sets of criteria come into play. A simple rule of thumb is, your residence is where you have stayed for 30 days or longer--unless trying to get in-state tuition; then they have different rules.

    I once read about a guy who lived (owned property) on both sides of the Wisconsin -MN border. He got grief on both sides. In MN they kept ticketing his truck because it wasn't registered in MN. I don't recall the specific problem in Wisconsin, but it was along the same lines. Maybe they insisted he needed a Wisconsin DL. Guy was stuck between a rock and a hard place and could please the constabulary and courts in neither place.

    When I was a kid we moved back and forth between NYC and a place in CT. To avoid being forced to get a new DL and re-register her car, my grandmother had to make monthly trips from one place to the other so she was never actually in CT for more than 30 consecutive days.

    I am going to guess that you can only get a residence CHL from one state at a time, the one in which your DL has been issued.
    This best illustrates what I was driving at. The 30 day thing for example, I know it at least used to be the law here in Mi. But what of the sonbirds who go South for the Winter? Say they own a home in Fla. and one here. Yes, you can only be registered to vote in one State. And you will have to use only one address for income tax purposes. But it would seem logical that one could get a drivers license (in fact would need to) from each State. And they'd be paying property taxes in each (presuming each State had a property tax).

    In addition to my Las Vegas address from last year, what got me thinking about this was that I met a guy while working in Iraq a couple years ago that did own property in two States, and held a drivers license from each (legal or not). He did say at least one State had issues with it, but like the example above, he was sort of in a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation.

    Thanks for all the replies, and the legal references. Something to think about here anyway!
    Regards, T Bone.


    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety". Benjamin Franklin

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    Thumbs down Residency: A Question of Fact

    Residency: A Question of Fact

    This is generally a factual determination under the laws of the states addressed. The specific factors applied by each state may vary, and dependent upon each state, the absence of factors may or may not be important in said state. Additionally, the presence or absence of factors in other states may or may not effect another states’ determination. Additionally, such factors may, or may not be indicative of residency if the individual holds or exhibits any indicated items, dependent upon that specific state. These factors, derived from numerous different sources, may include:

    • Where a person’s habitation is fixed, without any present intention of removal, and to which, whenever absent, that person intends to return (the “State of Mind” of the individual);
    • A person generally will have only one domicile at any particular time. Once shown to exist, a domicile shall generally be presumed to continue until the contrary is shown. The absence of any intention to abandon an existing domicile shall be considered to be equivalent to the intention to retain the domicile;
    • A person who leaves a domicile to go into another jurisdiction for temporary purposes generally is not considered to have lost the domicile. The mere intention to acquire a new domicile, without the fact of physical removal, generally doesn’t change a person’s domicile, and the fact of physical removal from a person’s domicile, without the intention to remain absent, generally doesn’t change that person’s domicile;
    • A person shall generally be considered to have abandoned a domicile on the date that the person leaves a state without any intention to return to that state;
    • A place where a person’s immediate family is domiciled is generally that person’s domicile. The domicile of a person who is married shall be the same as the person’s spouse unless there is affirmative evidence to the contrary, the husband and wife are legally separated, or the marriage has been dissolved;
    • When a person has made a home at any place with the intention of remaining there indefinitely and the person neither lives at the home in which the person’s family lives nor intends to do so, then that person may be deemed to have established a domicile separate from that person’s family; and
    • The domicile of a child’s parents is generally the domicile of the child. The domicile of the parent who has legal custody of the child shall be the domicile of the child.

    Additional factors may be considered in determining whether or not a person’s domicile is in a state, although none of these factors generally shall, by itself, be a determinant of a person’s domicile:


    • The percentage of time that the person is physically present within a state and the percentage of time that the person is physically present in each jurisdiction other than said state;
    • The location of the person’s domicile for the prior year;
    • The location at which the person votes or is registered to vote, except that casting an illegal vote generally does not establish a domicile for income tax purposes;
    • The person’s status as a student, or as parent of a student in said state;
    • The location of services performed by the person in the course of employment;
    • The classification of the person’s employment as temporary or permanent;
    • The change in the person’s living quarters;
    • The person’s ownership of other real property;
    • The jurisdiction in which the person has been issued a valid driver’s license;
    • The jurisdiction from which any motor vehicle registration was issued to the person and the actual physical location of the person’s vehicle or vehicles;
    • The purchase of any resident fishing or hunting licenses by the person;
    • The location of established banking relationships;
    • The location of established professional relationships with healthcare providers;
    • The location of established professional relationships with attorneys;
    • The location of established professional relationships with accountants;
    • The location of established professional relationships with professional investment advisors;
    • The location of established professional relationships with insurance agents or providers;
    • The filing by the person of a tax return, report, or application as a state resident or a nonresident individual, including school tuition;
    • The fulfillment or failure to fulfill by the person of a tax obligations required of a resident;
    • The address where personal mail is received by that person and not subsequently forwarded;
    • The location of any school that the person or the person’s spouse attends and whether resident or nonresident tuition was charged, as well as the location of the school attended by any of the person’s children who are in grades K-12;
    • The representations made to any insurance company concerning the person’s residence and on which any insurance policies are issued;
    • The location where the person, the person’s spouse, or the person’s minor children regularly participate in church, sporting events, group activities, or public performances;
    • Certificate of domicile or homestead, if applicable (a homestead exemption should not be filed on the Indiana property while owned);
    • Utility bills at a residence;
    • Professional or occupational license; and
    • Wage statements or other proof of employment in the state.

    The following factors are generally not considered factors to be included in the factual analysis of “residency”:


    • The location of any organization to which the person makes charitable contributions; and
    • The location of any charitable organization for which the person serves as a board member, committee member, or other volunteer.

    The short answer: No, you cannot be a resident of more than one state.

    I can add all of the cites, but then I'd have to charge you!



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    Distinguished Member Array T Bone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rock and Glock
    Aren't you sorry you asked?
    Nope. Thanks for all the replies!
    Regards, T Bone.


    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety". Benjamin Franklin

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    What does that mean?

    Quote Originally Posted by T Bone View Post
    This best illustrates what I was driving at. The 30 day thing for example, I know it at least used to be the law here in Mi. But what of the sonbirds who go South for the Winter? S
    Rock and Glock's learned answer actually provides *unfortunately* little in the way of a practical answer for you. The snowbird issue was resolved I think through legislation in FL and AZ because not fixing the problem caused other difficulties for the state's economy.

    Back to Rock and Glock's listing of factors; that is fine if some judge must make a determination, it gives little guidance to the ordinary citizenry or constabulary as they go about their daily tasks.

    Factors listed which could be very ambiguous and mean little about residence are where you do your banking. At a national bank with ATM machines all over doesn't really satisfy as an answer. Property taxes or property owned doesn't really satisfy as an answer--how many houses did McCain own? Presumably not all in AZ. Where your mail is delivered. Perhaps in two places. It can and does happen.

    Where you pay income tax doesn't cut it either. Some folks are required to pay state or city income taxes where the money is earned and not necessarily where they live. Some states have tried amazing "trickery" to allege taxes owed and due from non-residents. California for example once tried to collect income taxes from out of state residents if part of their income came from a pension that was earned in CA. I think that eventually Federal legislation or the courts put an end to that one, but other schemes abound.

    This stuff is a mess, but like so much in our world, the things that really trouble ordinary citizens in their daily lives, seldom receive attention from law makers.

    If I were KING, residence would be where you say it is, dependent only on living in that place 30 days during one years time, unless out of the country. And, folks would be able to have dl and chl from multiple states. Present arrangements are just stumbling blocks that don't serve the majority of honest citizenry who want to lead or have to lead a mobile life.

    E.g., What do you do with someone who owns a home in say Washington State, whose employer required him to have an apartment in Texas, and who sometimes spent more than 30 consecutive days in both places? That's a real person and real situation btw. As a practical matter he kept his Washington DL, though in theory he was not then legal when driving in Texas. To complicate things more, the car he had, in Texas, was owned (leased) by the employer in Washington. He couldn't register it here because he wasn't the owner-- but the car was physically in Texas for weeks at a time. At one point left at the airport in San Antonio for so long that the authorities traced the ownership to make sure it wasn't abandoned.

    And then there is the matter of his Washington CHL. Recognized in Texas, but at what point not valid because he should have a Texas one?

    This stuff is horrendous, and literally messes with millions of people day in and day out. It needs a fix, which ain't gonna happen.
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    Senior Member Array mi2az's Avatar
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    Only can be a resident of 1 state
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    AZ Husker, Hopyard and Others:

    I agree totally, there rarely is a practical answer - I only provided a list of factors which may or may not be utilized in any particular jurisdiction. The factors, however, are a fairly comprehensive list of what might or might not, as the case may be, important.

    The distinctions are even more critical for, say RV folks that live full-time in an RV (say, retired), moving from state to state as their whims and the weather dictates. They find it difficult to even "define" residency in any "normal" manner.

    Some of the factors are from "older" case law, for instance, the locus of banking relationships. In days past, without ATM's and on-line banking, this could be a very important criteria. Today, with the advent of multi-state branching, ATM's, and on-line banking, it may not be important, however, in some scenarios it may still be of import. For instance, I still have an account and a professional banking relationship with a local "one-town" bank in Texas, despite the fact I am a Colorado resident. If this were combined with other factors, it could be problematic, but I have other banking relationships with multi-state, multi-national banks also.

    Likewise, merely owning property in a state does not bestow domicile or residency in a state, absent other factors, such as voting registration, etc. The perfect example is the Sunbelt states, as well as states with a lot of vacation homes. Again, it goes back to an analysis of all of the factors. Remember Cheney and Montana?

    There are truly no easy answers, you have to ascertain the facts, and then make a measured analysis of the factors based on the facts. In many cases, you can actually effect (e.g.change your behavior) the facts to change the outcome.

    BTW, a person on a foreign assignment, say for two years, will generally still be considered a resident of some state, and owe income taxes, etc. to that state, dependent on their laws. That's why I always recommend to my clients that they establish residency in, say Texas or Florida, neither of which impose an income tax, before the foreign assignment.

    Also, the "30 Day" rule is only used by a few states, most apply a "factual" determination.

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