ND Anybody?

This is a discussion on ND Anybody? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I carry my G30SF loaded with one in the pipe and have seen several posts talking about the fact that if you are handling the ...

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    Member Array glock45's Avatar
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    ND Anybody?

    I carry my G30SF loaded with one in the pipe and have seen several posts talking about the fact that if you are handling the gun frequently you increase the possibility of an ND.
    Other posters mention the fact that Glocks without manual safety have certain level of risk when reholstering due to clothing snagging on the trigger, etc.

    I wanted to poll other forum members for REAL instances when these things have happened or other careless moments have led to an ND. The reason is to keep them in mind and avoid future recurrences of the same mistakes. I believe we can all benefit from sharing these experiences...

    That said, I am ALWAYS extremely careful when handling a loaded gun and for the most part, holster BEFORE putting the rig in place. Needless to say, my gun is always pointed in a safe direction when out of the holster unless pointed at a BG.

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    VIP Member Array matiki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glock45 View Post
    I carry my G30SF loaded with one in the pipe and have seen several posts talking about the fact that if you are handling the gun frequently you increase the possibility of an ND.
    Other posters mention the fact that Glocks without manual safety have certain level of risk when reholstering due to clothing snagging on the trigger, etc.

    I wanted to poll other forum members for REAL instances when these things have happened or other careless moments have led to an ND. The reason is to keep them in mind and avoid future recurrences of the same mistakes. I believe we can all benefit from sharing these experiences...

    That said, I am ALWAYS extremely careful when handling a loaded gun and for the most part, holster BEFORE putting the rig in place. Needless to say, my gun is always pointed in a safe direction when out of the holster unless pointed at a BG.
    I was in a retention class that uses airsoft guns, when I holstered the fake Glock they gave me it discharged. The plastic bit that holds the elastic cinch at the base of my jacket had gotten caught by the gun and went into the holster with it.
    "Wise people learn when they can; fools learn when they must." - The Duke of Wellington

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    VIP Member Array TN_Mike's Avatar
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    The only ND I ever have had, so far...was with a revolver and when I was much, much younger than I am now. It was my fault, I was stupid and I paid the price.
    ,=====o00o _
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    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    Other posters mention the fact that Glocks without manual safety have certain level of risk when re-holstering due to clothing snagging on the trigger, etc.
    To tell you the truth, I don't see how. It all depends on who, and why and responsibility. Folks choose Glock for many reasons, but in my opinion, and from what I've seen or heard, not many are totally involved in their decisions. In other words, some of the Glock benefits, price, ergonomics, or other issues one chooses a Glock for are just part of the big picture. Just like concealed carry....a lot of folks go for it for one reason or another, but in the big picture---many do not think about some of the deeper issues or drastically changing their lifestyle in order to fully encompass those ideals. No matter how hard some try to make any Glock work for them, they may never be on the straight and narrow path of Glock. It involves a lot, and more than most think. Compare it to reasonable doubt in a jury trial. Glocks are for folks with an ingrained sense of safety and security, designed as a combat pistol and modified for competition. Most important individual qualities to own/carry any Glock pistol are know your tools, know the application, choose the correct tool for the job, and always be aware of it's condition. In my opinion, Glocks are only for the serious. They are for business and not for play. I see the same posts time and again about those who feel uncomfortable about carrying a Glock loaded and ready. I say it's not for them plain and simple. Live, sleep, eat, breathe, feel Glock. Otherwise, you'd be far better off with something else IMO. Learn before you buy, and accept the responsibilities after you buy. There's never any good reason for a ND with any pistol, and there's even less reasons for a ND with a Glock. I know it may seem harsh, but...for those who can't carry or own a Glock responsibly should find some other alternative before you do yourself or someone else harm. It's not a game, and it's not to impress your friends or give into peer pressure. It's a serious matter. Either you are ready, or your not. RISK? Risk is for the unsure....the non-confident only. I take no risks carrying my Glocks fully loaded and if you feel a Glcok puts you at risk.......again....sell it and get something that will give you peace of mind. To tell the truth, I'm tired of hearing about so called 'risks' with Glock pistols or those who are afraid to carry them loaded. That only tells me one thing.....irresponsibility. I don't intend for this reply to be taken in haste nor directed toward any of the members in particular. Choose your carry pistol wisely and be ready for all it entails.

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    jfl
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    Check this thread:
    http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...discharge.html

    As RamRod said, get used to it.

    Remember, for a Negligent Discharge to happen, you have to be negligent; I have holstered/unholstered my Glock several thousand times over the years; I am still as careful, if not more, than the first times I did it.
    The first rule of a gunfight: "Don't be there !"
    The second rule: "Bring enough gun"

    jfl
    (NRA Life Member/Instructor - GOA - IDPA - GSSF - ex-IHMSA)

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    As long as you are a vigilant to maintain the level of firearms safety you appear to have now, you probably won't have an ND with any firearm because you will have successfully removed the "negligent" in "negligent discharge"!
    ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!

    "A superior Operator is best defined as someone who uses his superior
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    superior skills."

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    Member Array j21blackjack's Avatar
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    I had one with a rifle, but same rules apply and lessons were learned. I was about 12 squirrel hunting carrying, the rifle with my finger inside the trigger guard. Thought it was unloaded and nearly shot a hole in my foot when I stumbled. Haven't forgotten that lesson since.

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    Distinguished Member Array Gideon's Avatar
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    Complaceny is very likely the root cause of every single ND. There's always a lot of contributing circumstances but at the end of the day we relaxed just a bit, for only a second with regards to one of the 4 primary rules....

    ...and yes, I've had exactly one ND. It involved dry firing, being overly tired around a weapon, doing two things at once (studying on a PC and dryfiring) and most of all, Complacency.

    If a weapon has a certain feature that may or may not make it easier to discharge then complacency regarding that issue is going to catch up to a person.

    I've thought about my one ND just about every week since then. It certainly jolted me out of my "complacency".

    be safe

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    Senior Member Array KenInColo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ram Rod View Post
    To tell you the truth, I don't see how. It all depends on who, and why and responsibility. Folks choose Glock for many reasons, but in my opinion, and from what I've seen or heard, not many are totally involved in their decisions. In other words, some of the Glock benefits, price, ergonomics, or other issues one chooses a Glock for are just part of the big picture. Just like concealed carry....a lot of folks go for it for one reason or another, but in the big picture---many do not think about some of the deeper issues or drastically changing their lifestyle in order to fully encompass those ideals. No matter how hard some try to make any Glock work for them, they may never be on the straight and narrow path of Glock. It involves a lot, and more than most think. Compare it to reasonable doubt in a jury trial. Glocks are for folks with an ingrained sense of safety and security, designed as a combat pistol and modified for competition. Most important individual qualities to own/carry any Glock pistol are know your tools, know the application, choose the correct tool for the job, and always be aware of it's condition. In my opinion, Glocks are only for the serious. They are for business and not for play. I see the same posts time and again about those who feel uncomfortable about carrying a Glock loaded and ready. I say it's not for them plain and simple. Live, sleep, eat, breathe, feel Glock. Otherwise, you'd be far better off with something else IMO. Learn before you buy, and accept the responsibilities after you buy. There's never any good reason for a ND with any pistol, and there's even less reasons for a ND with a Glock. I know it may seem harsh, but...for those who can't carry or own a Glock responsibly should find some other alternative before you do yourself or someone else harm. It's not a game, and it's not to impress your friends or give into peer pressure. It's a serious matter. Either you are ready, or your not. RISK? Risk is for the unsure....the non-confident only. I take no risks carrying my Glocks fully loaded and if you feel a Glcok puts you at risk.......again....sell it and get something that will give you peace of mind. To tell the truth, I'm tired of hearing about so called 'risks' with Glock pistols or those who are afraid to carry them loaded. That only tells me one thing.....irresponsibility. I don't intend for this reply to be taken in haste nor directed toward any of the members in particular. Choose your carry pistol wisely and be ready for all it entails.
    Yep. Well said. Ultimately, it's your responsibility (not the gun's) to make sure it does not go off except when you want it to. Even then, if the muzzle is pointing in a safe direction, no one should get hurt.

    If part of your clothing gets caught on the trigger when you are re-holstering and it hits someone else, it's on you.

    My EDC is an H&K P2000. Like Glock, it has no safety. That's the way I want it. The first and most important safety is you.

    We all talk about SA (Situational Awareness) but I wonder how many of us realize that SA also includes being aware of what we are doing when [we are] handling our guns? e.g. Where is the muzzle pointing? Where is our trigger finger?

    I never have to do a 'chamber check' b/c I know there's always one in the chamber.

    Get yourself into a routine of safe habits and follow it to the letter and you'll never have a ND.

    I had an ND once, w/a BT-99 trap gun. It was a 'slam-fire' caused by a mechanical malfunction (it discharged when I closed the action preparing to fire.). B/c trap shooting rules require you to always keep your muzzle in a safe direction no one was hurt.
    An armed populace are called citizens.
    An unarmed populace are called subjects.

  11. #10
    Senior Member Array HK Dan's Avatar
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    I have been carrying for 11 years. I do it every day. I have never been casual about holstering or unholstering--this is what breeds an ND. I carry GLOCK almost exclusively (HK gets a date every once in a while)

    I have a little moment when I think to myself "This thing will kill you...slow down". I watch the muzzle direction, I keep my finger off the trigger, and I slide it into the holster slowly so I can feel a snag (there's never been one, but I do it anyway). Then it's off and about my duties.

    I agree with Ramrod with only one caveat. If you choose to carry, you're serious. If you choose to carry GLOCK, you need to be deliberative.

    Dan
    "What does Marcellus Wallace LOOK like?"

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    Member Array mike28w's Avatar
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    I work in an operating room. I can't tell you how many folks that I've cared for that have been shot by ND....mostly themselves !

    I don't remember any of them being drunk or drugged. I do remember a couple of LEO's and a couple of guys that routinely carried concealed....

    None of them had ever had an ND before, so I'm never very reassured when someone tells me that they've carried for "X" number of years without an ND.

    Do be careful...... It happens much more than you realize and almost never makes it into the newspaper.....mike

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    Ron
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    Except for revolvers, I prefer a gun with a maual safety. Yes, I know that it can slow you down if you ever need to draw and shoot quickly in a real life or death scenario, but I have practiced enough so that I am willing to trade the now remote possibility of not flicking off the safety for the reduced potential of a ND.

    We each have to do what we are most comfortable with.
    "It does not do to leave a dragon out of your calculations, if you live near him."

    J. R. R. Tolkien

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    VIP Member Array edr9x23super's Avatar
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    it all boils down to the gray matter between the ears.

    They can all go off unintentionally if you are not paying attention to what you are doing, i don't care if it is a Glock,1911 or a rocket launcher. That being said, I have carried Glocks for years off and on and have never had a problem with the trigger or lack of a manual safety.

    Like I said, if there is quality gray matter between the ears, your chances of that happening are slim....
    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined". - Patrick Henry

  15. #14
    Ex Member Array Froggy's Avatar
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    Can't say it was a ND but more like a AD. I bought a used Rem 700 BDL. The first time I took it out to fire it I shot off several rounds and decided to put it up. I dropped the floor plate and removed the rounds remaining in the magazine. I then started to remove the one out of the chamber. That is when I realized that the bolt wouldn't open with the safety on. I flipped the safety off and it fired resulting in having to change my underwear. I wondered if I had accidently hit the trigger or something similar but was too shocked to even think straight. I did have it pointing is as safe a direction as I could but it was aimed upwards and a 30-06 could easily travel a couple of miles.

    I went home and started checking to find that sometimes it would fire when the safety was moved to fire so off to the gunsmith it went.

  16. #15
    Member Array Hawker's Avatar
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    If you do alot of dry firing, you must be very aware when handling your firearm when loaded. Think first before any actions.
    225th SAC "Phantom Hawk" - US Army - Vietnam 1969-70

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